[GSBN] Straw Bale Insulated Ceiling

Tue Feb 4 17:53:07 UTC 2014

Sorry for my mistake, its not "iron sulphate", its: "Iron Oxid" ! :-))

JVK
Portugal

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Van Krieken <vankrieken at gmail.com> wrote:

> Feile
>
>
> 1. As well as in the walls, the gaps bettween the bales on the roof have
> to be carefully closed with loose straw. Its a easy task, but it takes time
> to be really well done (as everything else, I guess! :-)
>
> 2. When you put the bales on the roof (and afterwords the top wood
> structure) you'll notice that its not really very flat (as the walls
> aren't), so, if you just plaster it you'll find many places with 5, 6, 7 or
> even more cm of plaster. Thats very heavy. This is one of the reasons I
> prefer to use LECA mixed with the lime (just enought to agregate the LECA),
> because we can put 5, 6 or more cm without a height problem. I do not thing
> you need to put it on the bottom side of the bales, the ones in contact
> with the OSB, but before puting the bales I spray OSB and bales with a
> generous borax dilution, let it well dry and then put the bales. You may
> also wanto to use a special anti-fire OSB in the roof.
>
> 3. The fllor. because we need thermal mass, we use a 20 cm limecreet
> (stones, 1/2 lime and 1/2 cement). Then 5 or 6 cm of sand mixed with  50%
> lime and 50% white cement (just a little water on it). When is still fresh,
> we apply the powder: white cement and natural ochre with a tiny little bit
> of red (iron sulphate). In that particular case we used 700 g white cement
> + 150 g ochre + 10 g of red. After, you should apply some wax or natural
> vernish (we use form www.ecospaints.com ). Thats it.
>
> I like the "igloo"  method (complete surrounded by insulation)  to make a
> house. Its looks to me that is much more easy and fast, and with no thermal
> leeks. We are also building several houses with cork, using the same
> "Igloo" procedure. You may see one here (we have build this one in 12 days,
> 6 persons (140 m2).
>
> http://www.queridacasa.com
>
>
> Hope you enjoy! All the best
>
> Jorge Van Krieken
> Portugal
>
>
>
>  l
>
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Feile Butler <feile at mudandwood.com>wrote:
>
>>  Thanks to all of you for your replies
>>
>> Danny and Jorge - you both mention the difficulty in packing the gaps
>> between bales effectively. I suspected that might be a problem - so good to
>> get your practical experience in the field.
>>
>> You both also say that sealing with plaster is the best way to achieve
>> fire rating. Bohdan mentioned a fire test from Germany - does anyone know
>> who the author is so that I could look it up? Or does anyone have
>> information on thicknesses of plaster required to achieve various fire
>> ratings?
>>
>> Bohdan - I understand why you are questioning why they don't just use a
>> natural fibre batt. I think a big part of the reason is ethos. The clients
>> have access to plenty of locallly produced straw bales - which are as close
>> to an unprocessed but effective insulation product as they can get. I
>> suppose another option would be to look at accessing and cleaning a load of
>> sheep fleeces. But if that is not an option - then they need to buy a
>> manufactured product. Only sheep's wool is produced in Ireland (which would
>> be a good option), but it is manufactured in the exact opposite corner of
>> the country. Anything else (wood fibre, hemp) would have to be imported
>> from Europe.
>>
>> But, as you say, if we end up using an excessive amount of timber to
>> support the bales, then that is not a truly sustainable solution either.
>> It's always a balancing act! As I said in the previous email - we're
>> just exploring the option at the moment.
>>
>> Jorge - I thought that was interesting that you used the LECA with the
>> lime - I presume you did it to have achieve the maximum insulation values.
>> But with an entire bale doing the job for you, do you think that was an
>> excessive detail? Or was there another reason I missed?
>>
>> I also have to say I LOVED the look of the house when it was entirely
>> enclosed with bales - great to see bale walls AND roof.
>>
>> And as an aside - I love the colour of the floor too, particularly the
>> yellow. Was that an earth floor? Did you have very pale earth on the site
>> and pigment it up with ochre? It's a really beautiful finish.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Feile
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Van Krieken <vankrieken at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Global Straw Building Network <GSBN at sustainablesources.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 10:44 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [GSBN] Straw Bale Insulated Ceiling
>>
>> I used strawbales in the roof, with a special atention to fill the voids
>> between the bales (its quite time consuming). We sealed the bales with a
>> hidrated (or aerial) natural lime mixed with expanded clay aggregate.
>> You may see some pictures here: http://strawhouses.carbonmade.com
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Jorge Van Krieken
>> Portugal
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Danny Buck <dannycbuck at msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>>   Our experience here in New Mexico was that the roof structure gave us
>>> a lot of voids between bales that were very challenging to pack. If it is a
>>> true attic with a flat open surface to work off of, that would be different.
>>>
>>> The surface of the bale that is accessible to air (oxygen) is best
>>> sealed with a plaster.
>>>
>>> Danny Buck
>>> Daniel Buck Construction, Inc.
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Feile Butler <feile at mudandwood.com>
>>> *To:* Global Straw Building Network <GSBN at sustainablesources.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 03, 2014 2:57 AM
>>> *Subject:* [GSBN] Straw Bale Insulated Ceiling
>>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> I have clients who are considering insulating above the ceiling with
>>> straw bales. They have a large attic which could easily accommodate the
>>> bales and plenty of outbuildings, so they don't need the attic for storage.
>>>
>>> I have never detailed a straw bale ceiling before, but would like to
>>> explore the idea.
>>>
>>> One of my main concerns is fire. Is it enough to encapsulate the bales
>>> within plasterboard/clayboard on both sides (top and bottom)? If we want to
>>> deck out the floor above the bales, would it be enough to coat them in a
>>> lime or earth plaster before building up the floor above them? Is there
>>> any data out there about the behaviour of straw bales in ceilings that I
>>> can show the building control officer, particularly with regard to fire?
>>>
>>> Any advice on or experience of straw bale insulated ceilings would be
>>> very welcome.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>  *Féile Butler*
>>>
>>> *MRIAI B.Arch Dip. Arch Conservation Grade III*
>>>
>>> *Mud and Wood*
>>>
>>> *Grange Beg, Skreen, **Co. Sligo, Ireland*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                                                                                                                                    *T:
>>>  +353 (0) 71 930 0488 <%2B353%20%280%29%2071%20930%200488>*
>>>
>>> *M: +353 (0) 86 806 8382 <%2B353%20%280%29%2086%20806%208382>*
>>>
>>> *E : **feile at mudandwood.com*
>>>
>>> *W:www.mudandwood.com*
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