[GSBN] Question for you

Tue Oct 19 08:21:25 UTC 2010

  Hello,

John Straube wrote:
> .... but the builder is the hard part.
Building is a risky buisness. It is a complex thing to do and non paying 
clients or dry spells in between jobs make (sensible) buiders careful of 
jumping on a fairy tale wagon. Like they say; if it sounds too good to 
be true,... it probably is. This is true, but can also hinder big leaps 
in progress.
I estimated that one way of influencing the regular building 
professionals was to co-publish our french adaptation of Desing of SB 
Buildings together with one of the 2 main regular french building 
industry editors. In fact they (Eyrolles) only have their logo on the 
cover; I did the work and payed the bills. I get a lot of positive 
feedback on this 'little detail': when regular builders see that 
Eyrolles(!!!) published a book on SB they automaticly believe that SB is 
serious (this was mostly not the case before). This way the message has 
much more impact (on the regular building pros) than when published by a 
guy with a funny accent. In the process most outiders forget that I did 
the book; but that's not really what matters (as long as it sells ;-)

I also have the impression that the war industry (chemical and ciment) 
left over from the 2 world wars made sure that the clients found them 
easily after most of the men with building experience were killed. And 
just like the guildes in the midle ages and the maffia, they protect 
their market any way they can get away with. Also agree with Chris 
(though I had not looked at it in that way),

André - incognito - de Bouter

> On 2010-10-18, at 6:02 AM, Derek Roff wrote:
>
>> I agree that Chris offers a great answer.  I'd like to add one more dimension.  In many places and jurisdictions, the legal and financial systems (including taxation, financing and insurance) ignore or penalize innovation generally, and thick walls specifically.  As we know, the direct costs of thicker walls are modest, and easily compensated by the advantages of strawbale.  But when one is taxed, financed, and regulated on the outside measurements of a house, that becomes an additional liability and price for thick-walled structures.  In locations where houses are measured and permitted by the "hat print", overhangs disappear.  This is bad for every construction technique, but especially dangerous for lightweight steel framing and for strawbale.
>>
>> So to all the fiddly bits in strawbale construction, there are shadow fiddly bits in the permitting, legal, and financial requirements.
>>
>> Derelict
>>
>> Derek Roff
>> Language Learning Center
>> Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
>> University of New Mexico
>> Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
>> 505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
>> Internet: derek at unm.edu
>>
>>
>> --On Sunday, October 17, 2010 12:55 PM -0400 Chris Magwood<chris at chrismagwood.ca>  wrote:
>>
>>>   Joyce,
>>>
>>> That same question can be asked about all too many systems that are
>>> significant improvements on their mainstream counterparts, not just
>>> straw bale. So there's a meta-answer to that question, and then
>>> there are straw bale specific answers.
>>>
>>> The meta-answer has to do with our natural human tendency to keep
>>> doing what we've always done and improve it in small, measurable
>>> ways rather than change to new systems. To sum it all up: Humans
>>> are good at doing things better, but lousy at doing better things.
>>> We'd rather tinker with slightly improved cars than figure out a
>>> new transportation system. Etc.
>>>
>>> The straw bale specific answer is one I've thought lots about. The
>>> bottom line is it's just too messy and inexact a technique to be
>>> put into widespread, mainstream use. It's next to impossible to
>>> train people to do straw bale without lots and lots of on-site
>>> experience. There are too many ways to do it, too many variables
>>> and inconsistencies. From getting the bales (which are always
>>> differently shaped, sized, weighted and priced) to the different
>>> kinds of framing, plastering, etc, the whole process is well suited
>>> to owner-builders or committed professionals, but no so friendly to
>>> the guy (and yes, I'm being gender specific here!) who just wants
>>> to build some houses for a living, or the developers who want to
>>> hire him to do that. We all love these parts of straw bale building
>>> because we're attracted to innovation, creativity and community
>>> involvement in building. We are a minority. And if you're not one
>>> of us, the whole thing is just too much to bother with. And having
>>> spent a long time making a living as a builder, I know that it was
>>> only because my clients were highly predisposed to want a bale
>>> building and were willing to put up with all the hiccups a bale
>>> building entails (tarps, mess, plaster finishes...) for all the
>>> advantages we know and love. But for most builders and homeowners,
>>> the scales just don't tip in that direction.
>>>
>>> This is the reason I've been so keen to develop the prefab strategy
>>> I've been working on. This year, we built walls for our Habitat for
>>> Humanity build that were cheaper than their conventionally framed
>>> option and still had all the benefits of bale building. They are
>>> now interested in buying bale walls for future projects. But this
>>> is only because they show up pre-plastered, and fit perfectly
>>> according to the plans. There's no way the same organization would
>>> consider using site baled walls.
>>>
>>> So I think the honest answer you need to give your questioner is
>>> that there are too many disadvantages to bale walls. They don't
>>> detract from all the things we see as advantages... those
>>> advantages are real and should be weighted heavily. But everybody
>>> has to weigh up their options, and from a mainstream point of view,
>>> the scale still tips towards bale's disadvantages.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On 10-10-17 12:15 PM, Joyce Coppinger wrote:
>>>> The other day I was asked this question:
>>>>
>>>> If strawbale is such a good building method and material, can pass
>>>> codes, can be insured, can be funded through mortgage or other
>>>> lending, uses a crop residue that is annually renewable and might
>>>> otherwise go to waste, has a high energy-efficiency value, can be
>>>> built in most climates, if not all, can be built rather easily by
>>>> owner/builders or professional builders, why aren't there more
>>>> straw-bale buildings being constructed?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joyce
>>>> ---------------
>>>> Joyce Coppinger
>>>> Managing Editor/Publisher
>>>> The Last Straw, the international journal
>>>> of strawbale and natural building
>>>> PO Box 22706, Lincoln NE 68542-2706
>>>> Phone 402.483.5135
>>>> <thelaststraw at thelaststraw.org>
>>>> web site: www.thelaststraw.org
>>>> and our new blog at http://thelaststrawblog.org
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