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Hello,<br>
<br>
John Straube wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:FFE85714-2CEA-4B3D-8C9D-91E49B4BBE45@civmail.uwaterloo.ca"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">.... but the builder is the hard part.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Building is a risky buisness. It is a complex thing to do and non
paying clients or dry spells in between jobs make (sensible) buiders
careful of jumping on a fairy tale wagon. Like they say; if it
sounds too good to be true,... it probably is. This is true, but can
also hinder big leaps in progress.<br>
I estimated that one way of influencing the regular building
professionals was to co-publish our french adaptation of Desing of
SB Buildings together with one of the 2 main regular french building
industry editors. In fact they (Eyrolles) only have their logo on
the cover; I did the work and payed the bills. I get a lot of
positive feedback on this 'little detail': when regular builders see
that Eyrolles(!!!) published a book on SB they automaticly believe
that SB is serious (this was mostly not the case before). This way
the message has much more impact (on the regular building pros) than
when published by a guy with a funny accent. In the process most
outiders forget that I did the book; but that's not really what
matters (as long as it sells ;-)<br>
<br>
I also have the impression that the war industry (chemical and
ciment) left over from the 2 world wars made sure that the clients
found them easily after most of the men with building experience
were killed. And just like the guildes in the midle ages and the
maffia, they protect their market any way they can get away with.
Also agree with Chris (though I had not looked at it in that way),<br>
<br>
André - incognito - de Bouter<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:FFE85714-2CEA-4B3D-8C9D-91E49B4BBE45@civmail.uwaterloo.ca"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
On 2010-10-18, at 6:02 AM, Derek Roff wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I agree that Chris offers a great answer. I'd like to add one more dimension. In many places and jurisdictions, the legal and financial systems (including taxation, financing and insurance) ignore or penalize innovation generally, and thick walls specifically. As we know, the direct costs of thicker walls are modest, and easily compensated by the advantages of strawbale. But when one is taxed, financed, and regulated on the outside measurements of a house, that becomes an additional liability and price for thick-walled structures. In locations where houses are measured and permitted by the "hat print", overhangs disappear. This is bad for every construction technique, but especially dangerous for lightweight steel framing and for strawbale.
So to all the fiddly bits in strawbale construction, there are shadow fiddly bits in the permitting, legal, and financial requirements.
Derelict
Derek Roff
Language Learning Center
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
Internet: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:derek@unm.edu">derek@unm.edu</a>
--On Sunday, October 17, 2010 12:55 PM -0400 Chris Magwood <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chris@chrismagwood.ca"><chris@chrismagwood.ca></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> Joyce,
That same question can be asked about all too many systems that are
significant improvements on their mainstream counterparts, not just
straw bale. So there's a meta-answer to that question, and then
there are straw bale specific answers.
The meta-answer has to do with our natural human tendency to keep
doing what we've always done and improve it in small, measurable
ways rather than change to new systems. To sum it all up: Humans
are good at doing things better, but lousy at doing better things.
We'd rather tinker with slightly improved cars than figure out a
new transportation system. Etc.
The straw bale specific answer is one I've thought lots about. The
bottom line is it's just too messy and inexact a technique to be
put into widespread, mainstream use. It's next to impossible to
train people to do straw bale without lots and lots of on-site
experience. There are too many ways to do it, too many variables
and inconsistencies. From getting the bales (which are always
differently shaped, sized, weighted and priced) to the different
kinds of framing, plastering, etc, the whole process is well suited
to owner-builders or committed professionals, but no so friendly to
the guy (and yes, I'm being gender specific here!) who just wants
to build some houses for a living, or the developers who want to
hire him to do that. We all love these parts of straw bale building
because we're attracted to innovation, creativity and community
involvement in building. We are a minority. And if you're not one
of us, the whole thing is just too much to bother with. And having
spent a long time making a living as a builder, I know that it was
only because my clients were highly predisposed to want a bale
building and were willing to put up with all the hiccups a bale
building entails (tarps, mess, plaster finishes...) for all the
advantages we know and love. But for most builders and homeowners,
the scales just don't tip in that direction.
This is the reason I've been so keen to develop the prefab strategy
I've been working on. This year, we built walls for our Habitat for
Humanity build that were cheaper than their conventionally framed
option and still had all the benefits of bale building. They are
now interested in buying bale walls for future projects. But this
is only because they show up pre-plastered, and fit perfectly
according to the plans. There's no way the same organization would
consider using site baled walls.
So I think the honest answer you need to give your questioner is
that there are too many disadvantages to bale walls. They don't
detract from all the things we see as advantages... those
advantages are real and should be weighted heavily. But everybody
has to weigh up their options, and from a mainstream point of view,
the scale still tips towards bale's disadvantages.
Chris
On 10-10-17 12:15 PM, Joyce Coppinger wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The other day I was asked this question:
If strawbale is such a good building method and material, can pass
codes, can be insured, can be funded through mortgage or other
lending, uses a crop residue that is annually renewable and might
otherwise go to waste, has a high energy-efficiency value, can be
built in most climates, if not all, can be built rather easily by
owner/builders or professional builders, why aren't there more
straw-bale buildings being constructed?
Joyce
---------------
Joyce Coppinger
Managing Editor/Publisher
The Last Straw, the international journal
of strawbale and natural building
PO Box 22706, Lincoln NE 68542-2706
Phone 402.483.5135
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:thelaststraw@thelaststraw.org"><thelaststraw@thelaststraw.org></a>
web site: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.thelaststraw.org">www.thelaststraw.org</a>
and our new blog at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thelaststrawblog.org">http://thelaststrawblog.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
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