[GSBN] Wall Detail
Frank Tettemer
frank at livingsol.com
Thu May 24 01:07:01 UTC 2018
Thanks Chris for that "short message". Short but full.
That was a great overview the climatic conditions of this area(extremely
variable, hot, rainy, dry, but mostly frozen),
and how these conditions have helped the evolution of natural building
in this North Eastern climate.
Each climate is unique. Chris's climate grows trees like crazy. Trees,
in the form of structural materials and lumber, combine with cellulose,
to form fanatasticly warm homes. Whether it be Straw Cell for that extra
R-Value, or double-stud dense-packed shreddedand recycled newspaper,
we want warm, dry, and at least carbon neutral.
I like straw, but our environment is many kilometers away from any grain
growing farm land.
What we have here is trees, and what industry makes here is lumber and
paper from wood pulp.
So naturally our crew has moved more and more to the
thick, dense-packed cellulose walls, with vertical wood siding as our
walls of choice!
Andwe have built quite a lot with lumber and cellulose for the same
reasons as Chris has stated:
Building inspector happy; roofand windowsare up before insulation;
locally sourced materials: bad-plastering carpenters, like me, can do
it; R-40+ wall systems; and a toasty-warm, carbon-positive building.
Our climate has an Early Fall, Long Winter, Short muddy Spring and only
one Construction Season. Load bearing good ol' fashioned Nebraska style
is not easy in this climate.
Frank Tettemer
On 2018-05-23 5:41 PM, Chris Magwood wrote:
>
> Hi Enga, and all who've waded into this fascinating discussion...
>
> I'm really glad to be reading this thread, there's a lot of rich
> questions and ideas here, and I think there's a lot of value in
> exploring them. Perhaps this discussion can be a central part of an
> upcoming Int'l Straw Bale gathering? I would love to have that kind of
> extended opportunity to talk about these things.
>
> But I have some thoughts that I'd like to get out there in this forum,
> as a response to what I've read so far. This stuff is highly relevant
> to my own practice lately, and I'm churning this stuff over in my mind
> a lot.
>
> I found myself came in this field of endeavour as an owner-builder,
> attracted by the apparent simplicity of bale building and all the
> other great benefits that the renaissance pioneers (many of whom are
> on this list!) brought to our attention. Having lived through making
> all the obvious mistakes I made on my first house, I got really
> passionate about figuring out how to do straw bale building better to
> save others from the same mistakes. Thus began a couple of decades of
> building and research...
>
> Along the way, all kinds of things happened that have informed and
> re-directed my efforts and energies. I'm going to point-form these to
> keep this message shorter:
>
> * *Issues exterior plaster finishes* (in particular in a region with
> little to no plaster experience, and a cold, wet climate and
> citizens who are used to "maintenance-free" brick and vinyl
> cladding). All of the really serious mistakes/failures with bale
> buildings in this part of the world are due to issues with plaster
> and plaster detailing. The cost of plaster finishes, whether in
> time for owner/builders or cost for those doing the work
> professionally is also highly relevant.
> * *Issues with code.* Though we all know that load-bearing buildings
> can and do work, and can even get permits (we've done over a dozen
> here), in this part of the world it requires a structural engineer
> to stick her/his neck out to approve this, and this costs owners a
> lot of money and inevitably slows down permit times. There are
> also many who simply can't find an engineer willing/able to do
> this for them.
> * *Issues with building process/weather.* Ontario has a fairly short
> building season, and one during which it can rain suddenly and
> heavily on any given day. I often wonder if the number of poly
> tarps sacrificed to keep bale walls dry in this part of the world
> outweighs all the environmental plusses... I'm sure the answer is
> no, but the amount of time spent tarping and untarping and the
> costs in time and labour (and tarpage) is significant, and the
> reason that many builders have pursued wood frame options to
> enable a roof to go overhead before bales go in. We also can't
> plaster exteriors here for 6 months of the year due to freezing
> conditions, which also provides challenges aplenty.
> * *Issues with energy efficiency.* Seems crazy to think, but our
> R-30 (ish) bale walls that were outstandingly energy efficient 20
> years ago are only just going to meet code minimum requirements
> here in Canada within a couple of years. While a bale house was
> remarkably energy efficient back then, we cold-climate inhabitants
> have learned that if we want to be serious about reducing energy
> use, it takes something more than a standard bale wall to get
> there. Net zero homes are a good idea, and we can't do that very
> effectively with a typical bale wall in our climate. There are
> also issues around getting plastered bale buildings to be airtight
> enough to be truly energy efficient... many crews have figured
> this out, but it's not straightforward or simple.
> * *Issues with "replicability."* Though many professional bale
> builders have been able to develop systems and crews that allow
> them to compete with conventional builders, it's clear by now that
> straw bale building isn't going to take the mainstream building
> world by storm. That in itself isn't a bad thing... bale building
> can fill an important niche for both professionals and
> owner-builders. But for those who want more buildings to have the
> improved ecological and carbon footprint that comes naturally with
> bale buildings, it is something of a conundrum... how do we
> achieve this if straw bales are not the go-to solution for 99.9%
> of builders?
> * *Carbon positive building.* One of the great things about bale
> buildings is that they can store a whack of biogenic carbon, and
> can even contribute to "carbon positive" buildings that store more
> carbon than was emitted in making them. But not all bale buildings
> do this... I've certainly seen bale buildings with enough
> concrete, steel, lime, glass and other high emissions materials to
> negate the carbon positivity of the bale walls. And for those
> concerned with carbon positive building, there are other ways to
> make a carbon positive building using other materials, and getting
> the same result for the planet without using bales.
> * /***It doesn't elude me that all of these issues are definitely
> "first world problems!" The humble load-bearing bale building only
> faces these issues when trying to compete with conventional
> options. If we can change people's expectations of what a house
> should be, this whole discussion would be a lot less central.../
>
> My efforts in the field of prefab straw bale walls have all been
> attempts to address these key issues and still use the material I love
> so much. Prefab panels have allowed us to use the simplicity of
> load-bearing design without facing the weather issues of plastering
> outside, and also simplifying the plastering process so that it is
> much, much less time consuming, fussy and skilled a task (because it's
> done with the panel lying down flat... working with gravity!). Though
> it hasn't been done very often, I see these kind of panels as highly
> appropriate for owner builders who can build them in place on their
> floor deck, and get them built, plastered and stood up in an easy,
> manageable process, without needing lots of volunteers and being able
> to adequately protect one or two panels from inclement weather quite
> easily. Those who have done this have really benefited from the
> technique, and are among the best owner-built homes I've ever seen,
> and certainly the quickest, most affordable and painless (and, dare I
> say, straightest). These plastered prefab walls help address code
> issues (engineers seem happier if they know the plaster is a
> consistent thickness, provides a straight load path, and won't
> delaminate between coats), and offer a path to replicability that is
> much more direct than with site built bales. The plaster finish is
> also straight enough that mounting a rain screen cladding where
> appropriate is suddenly very simple to do. For all of these reasons
> (and more), I've been really happy with our plastered prefab panels,
> and continue to advocate for them.
>
> However, the plastered panels are still limited in regards to their
> energy efficiency, and the weight involved in making a pre-plastered
> panel. Our most recent versions of "dry" panels are an attempt to
> address all the above issues. By using insulated sheathing (wood fiber
> board, which is as eco-friendly as a manufactured material can get and
> more vapour permeable than earthen plaster) we up our energy
> efficiency an important notch, and simplify air sealing details
> greatly. The labour time for making panels is reduced significantly by
> eliminating the plaster. And by adding the wood fiber board, we're
> storing more biogenic carbon (even earthen plaster doesn't do that!).
>
> Do our weird boxes stuffed with bales seem a long way off from my
> beginnings as a bale builder? Yup indeed. But do they satisfy all of
> the things that are important to me as a builder? Yup, they do. We can
> even use clay plaster on the interior (haven't yet, but hope to soon!).
>
> So that's one way (a little long-winded... sorry!) to keep using straw
> bales and to address all the issues that have proven difficult for our
> practice here in Ontario. We've experimented with others (like using
> round bales as load-bearing columns, and using jumbo bales), but none
> have had the simplicity and elegance of the "dry" panel.
>
> I have certainly seen some potential solutions to straw bale problems
> that are less than elegant, and at that point I do think it is
> worthwhile asking if bales are the right material to be using. The
> second I see anybody sawing, channeling or notching a bale, I
> immediately wonder if this is an appropriate strategy. Why not
> cellulose, another carbon-storing, recycled material that fills any
> void perfectly? Why not hempcrete or straw/clay, also great at filling
> framing cavities? Why not an exterior or interior frame of some kind
> that won't interface with the bales? These are all important questions
> to ask, and I think it's important that as practitioners we are open
> to asking them and to arriving at an answer that is not straw bale.
>
> I also think that we could collectively be thinking about new ways to
> use the amazing straw resources we have. Can we shred straw and use it
> like cellulose? Can we make stacking, interlocking bales? Can we make
> bales that fit into standard framing dimensions without any on-site
> carving? Can bales come with a base coat of plaster on the exterior
> and interior so they can be dry-stacked, easily cut, and be weather
> protected? These possibilities, and many more, exist for us to explore
> (and there are those out there doing these things right now... let's
> learn from them and support them!). After all, from a climate
> perspective, we grow enough cereal grains every year that the straw
> absorbs twice as much carbon as is emitted by all human
> transportation! Turns out those little stalks are the most effective
> carbon capture and storage machines ever invented. And we've all been
> doing the right thing by bundling some if it up and putting it in
> houses for a long time. If we can figure out ways to make it easy for
> people to do more of that - even if it doesn't match our preconceived
> notions of a "straw bale house."
>
> I think these are the issues/questions that underlie this discussion,
> and I for one am keen to engage with others on figuring out solutions!
>
> Whew, that was long-winded. Thanks to anybody who read this far!
>
> Chris
>
>
> On 2018-05-15 9:02 PM, Enga Lokey wrote:
>>
>> Hello you amazing builders/designers,
>>
>> At the risk of being chucked off the list for this question, I would
>> like to play devil’s advocate here and ask what is being achieved by
>> the use of strawbales in the methods discussed below and others that
>> seem to be the direction that strawbale is moving (i.e. building
>> wrap, 2x6 framing on 24in centers, external timber sheathing, etc).
>> More specifically, it appears that the building methods are being
>> adjusted toward a more standard construction to the point of
>> wondering why the strawbale is even still used? There are other
>> cellulose based products and other more natural or healthy insulation
>> products on the market.
>>
>> We are all aware of the challenges of working with straw and thus
>> there needs to be, in balance, a greater benefit in order to justify.
>> Is that benefit still there when used in this way? Are we not using
>> equal/more other materials in order to build with straw in these
>> methods? Is it justified?
>>
>> And as the saying goes, "just because I am confused does not mean you
>> are incorrect."
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Enga
>>
>>
>>
>> enga at thelokeys.net <mailto:enga at thelokeys.net>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 15 May 2018, at 9:21 pm, Rene Dalmeijer <rdalmeij at mac.com
>>> <mailto:rdalmeij at mac.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Doug,
>>>
>>> I did a pre-fab 5 story SB build akin to the system used by David in
>>> 2007. The difference being we used Fermacell with breathable
>>> housewrap on the outside clad with open horizontal larch cladding.
>>> This has been performing very well even though there have been some
>>> leeks due to caulking problems in the window frames, No mushy bales.
>>>
>>> This has become my preferred Pre-fab SB method. Although I am now
>>> involved in a pre-fab build without any earth plaster on the bales
>>> at all, shudder! The bales will vertically stacked in prefab
>>> elements with underlayment inner and outer skins with wooden
>>> vertical slab siding.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rene Dalmeijer Proces Advies
>>> Thomas Hoodstraat 2
>>> 1086 WE Amsterdam
>>>
>>> 06 48955419
>>>
>>> KvK 34243755
>>> BTW NL057444146B01
>>> NL18ASNB0932817343
>>> new email rdalmeij at mac.com <mailto:rdalmeij at mac.com>
>>>
>>> IBAN NL09INGB0004388720
>>> BIC INGBNL2A
>>>
>>>> On May14, 2018, at 18:42, David Arkin, AIA <david at arkintilt.com
>>>> <mailto:david at arkintilt.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Doug:
>>>>
>>>> We completed a recent project using a ‘Hybrid Wall System’,
>>>> employing typical 2x6 studs at 24” on center with plywood sheathing
>>>> (note - plywood, not OSB - but in a non-seismic zone wood
>>>> fiberboard or similar may suffice), and then installed the bales as
>>>> insulation on-end between the studs, using clay plaster on the
>>>> interior and a typical weather-barrier and cladding finish on the
>>>> exterior. Attached is an illustration of the system, and here are
>>>> links to the workshop and the finished building, a 34,000 mixed use
>>>> office and warehouse in Eugene, Oregon.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.arkintilt.com/ata-helps-host-casba-hybrid-straw-bale-workshop-our-mahonia-building-eugene-oregon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.arkintilt.com/salvaged-materials-mahonia
>>>>
>>>> Also attached is a picture of the wall under construction. We used
>>>> 3-string rye bales and held them tight to the plywood with 4” wide
>>>> strips of 1/2” plywood, and 12” Timber-Hex screws into the studs
>>>> (we'll use 14” screws next time - easier to find the studs, and a
>>>> better connection).
>>>>
>>>> I also have the WUFI analysis our building efficiency consultant
>>>> ran for various locations - they can run a weather file specific to
>>>> Wilmington if you wish. LMK.
>>>>
>>>> This is not quite a ‘StrawCell’ as it doesn’t feature cellulose,
>>>> but it could be appropriate to Delaware.
>>>>
>>>> Looks like a great project,
>>>>
>>>> David / ATA & CASBA
>>>>
>>>> <2017-0224 YW2 bale corner detail2.jpg>
>>>> <IMG_9936.JPG>
>>>>> On May 14, 2018, at 8:47 AM, Chris Magwood
>>>>> <chris at endeavourcentre.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Doug,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a detail from our last straw-cell project. Hope it's
>>>>> helpful to you. You can contact me off list if you want to discuss it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2018-05-14 11:03 AM, douglas nichols wrote:
>>>>>> Hello All
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm consulting with a non-profit (http://www.yinnovations.org/)
>>>>>> to build an affordable straw home for a low income family.
>>>>>> Their current engineering was provided by someone unfamiliar
>>>>>> with straw bale building and is coming up pretty short of being a
>>>>>> low carbon, sustainable, or natural design. So we are moving to
>>>>>> a straw cell design to help ease any engineering and building
>>>>>> official concerns about the straw bale part. My question is--
>>>>>> does anyone have a good straw cell wall detail drawing they can
>>>>>> point me to or donate to the effort?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Y Innovations, Inc.
>>>>>> www.yinnovations.org
>>>>>> 2903 North Jefferson Street 2903 North Jefferson Street is a 4500
>>>>>> square foot vacant lot in the city of Wilmington, where Y
>>>>>> Innovations will be completing a 630 square foot naturally-built
>>>>>> straw bale home in 2018.
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doug Nichols
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Creating Energy Efficient Homes Since 1995
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nichols Contracting LLC
>>>>>> 821 S. 400 E.
>>>>>> Moab, Utah 84532
>>>>>> Cell #970.683.1517
>>>>>> Lic. #9508518-5501
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Principal / Qualifying Builder
>>>>>> Community Rebuilds Moab -- http://www.communityrebuilds.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Gsbn mailing list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gsbn at sustainablesources.com
>>>>>> http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/gsbn
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Chris Magwood
>>>>> Director, Endeavour Centre
>>>>>
>>>>> www.endeavourcentre.org
>>>>> <Screen Shot 2018-05-14 at 11.29.45
>>>>> AM.png>_______________________________________________
>>>>> Gsbn mailing list
>>>>> Gsbn at sustainablesources.com
>>>>> http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/gsbn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * * * * *
>>>> Arkin Tilt Architects
>>>> Ecological Planning & Design
>>>> 1101 8th St. #180, Berkeley, CA 94710
>>>> 510/528-9830 ext. 2#
>>>> www.arkintilt.com
>>>>
>>>> David Arkin, AIA, Architect
>>>> LEED Accredited Professional
>>>> CA #C22459/NV #5030
>>>>
>>>> Director, California Straw Building Association
>>>> www.strawbuilding.org
>>>> CASBA is a project of the Tides Center
>>>>
>>>> "There is no way to peace. Peace is the way."
>>>> — A. J. Muste
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
> --
> Chris Magwood
> Director, Endeavour Centre
> www.endeavourcentre.org
>
>
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