[GSBN] Solar air heater and hygroscopic plaster as ventilation strategies (was re: Can bale buildings be air tight?- How to ventilate)

Wed Mar 20 22:54:22 UTC 2013

Rob Tom, I'll be glad to research a clear answer to your questions if you
provide some more information,

You wrote:

"At the risk of getting put onto yet some more listmembers $#!+ lists, I'd
ask Jorge to explain to us how he thinks that the solar air heater that he
mentions would go about providing the necessary air change rate  to each
habitable room (ie numerous bedrooms as well, which are likely somewhat
isolated from the main living areas) in the house at night when the sun is
down and all of the
occupants are at home and needing fresh air, assuming that he would only
install one Solarventi device on a given single family residence (a not
unreasonable assumption since the cost of one of the SAH mentioned in his
example is about the same cost as an HRV or ERV, which *would* do the job.)"

I ask:

1. Hoy many rooms are you talking about? 1, 5, 10 or 100? Maybe you could
provide a clear example if you need a clear solution. Do you have a project
I can see? No device its a miracle. Ofcourse many other issues should be
questioned, like what kind of insulation you have, U values, materials,
etc. To get the proper air exchange in the apartment,ofcourse there must be
a natural roof vent or mechanical vent. Also, you need some air (diferent
solutions for a house in the Moon or in Saturn, I guess).

2. Why do you assume that they only install one device? You can build one
for 200 euros, so you maybe can build some more depending on the size of
your house. Or you also have only one door and one window for the whole
house? At night time you could perhaps shut the windows

3. How do this HRV or ERV "would" do that job? What job?

"A little more specifically, I would ask Jorge to explain how the minimal
rate of 10 litres per sec would be delivered to the master bedroom at
night in winter (ie when outside temperatures are below freezing) in a
two-storey design where the bedrooms are typically on the upper floor
level."

Whay dont tou put a small device then in your upper floor?
If you heat your house during the day, and if your walls and floors are
good enought (thermal mass, lime, clay...) and well insulated from the
outside (perhaps strawbales?), then you probably will spend a nice worm
romantic night and the candle lights will not blow out, if you keep your
windows closed...

Finally, I am sorry if this canadian original idea was stolen by a danish
or so company. In my short life experience of something more then half a
century I'v learn something important: there are many answers to one same
question and many people who invested a lot of time investigating the same
issues. All of them deserves my respect, not because they know something,
but specially because they enjoy to share what they know, or, in other
words, because they are genuinely generous.

All the best

Jorge Van Krieken

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:09 PM, RT <archilogic at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> on Fri, 15 Mar 2013  Van Krieken <vankrieken@ ... wrote:
>
>
>  There is a device that can give a good ventilation, reduce moistures and
>> heat the house on winter, using only... the sun.
>>
>> A similar product is available in US at https://chesapeake-solar.com/ or
>> find dealers in Australia, New Zealand and other countries at:
>> http://www.solarventi.com/**dealers/world.htm<http://www.solarventi.com/dealers/world.htm>
>>
>> More information about this device (from Danmark) :
>> http://www.solarventi.com/**produkter/modeller.htm<http://www.solarventi.com/produkter/modeller.htm>
>>
>>
> and Graeme North wrote:
>
>  That aside - the best strategy I have found for drying out damp houses is
>>> to use hygroscopic materials in the fabric of the house - and the best and
>>> easiest is earthen walls or at least earthen plasters on any suitable
>>> substrate such as dry wall.
>>>
>>
>   I  don't want to wake up dead of asphyxiation in an air tight building
>>> because the electricity failed while I slept.
>>>
>>
>
> Actually, if it were possible to "wake up dead", perhaps that might not be
> such a Bad Thing -- certainly better than dying in the night in the normal
> fashion (ie no more waking up-- ever).
>
> At the risk of getting put onto yet some more listmembers $#!+ lists, I'd
> ask Jorge to explain to us how he thinks that the solar air heater that he
> mentions would go about providing the necessary air change rate  to each
> habitable room (ie numerous bedrooms as well, which are likely somewhat
> isolated from the main living areas) in the house at night when the sun is
> down and all of the
> occupants are at home and needing fresh air, assuming that he would only
> install one Solarventi device on a given single family residence (a not
> unreasonable assumption since the cost of one of the SAH mentioned in his
> example is about the same cost as an HRV or ERV, which *would* do the job.)
>
> A little more specifically, I would ask Jorge to explain how the minimal
> rate of 10 litres per sec would be delivered to the master bedroom at
> night in winter (ie when outside temperatures are below freezing) in a
> two-storey design where the bedrooms are typically on the upper floor
> level.
>
> BTW, if I were going to buy a solar air heater, I'd likely go with the
> company that invented them back in the late 1970's (here in Canada I might
> add)
>
> http://solarwall.com/en/**products.php<http://solarwall.com/en/products.php>
>
>
> ... rather than some company that "borrowed" the idea, re-marketing the
> old glazed design via some schlub in the US whose site is scarce on details
> ... that is if I were to buy one intending to use it as my ventilation
> strategy (which I wouldn't).
>
>                                                  *
>
> And I would ask Graeme to explain how he thinks that a hygroscopic plaster
> veneer over gypsum board would manage the more than 20 kg of water vapour*
> that could be put into the air in a house on any given day, over the
> course of a winter season lasting say, 3 months  ... when outdoor
> temperatures are near or below below freezing and people tend to like to
> keep doors and windows shut.
>
> * The 20 kg figure is one pulled out of a little primer for builders of
> energy-efficient homes here in Ontario back in 1985(see below). Again, I
> cite the little booklet only because it's something that's been laying
> around for a long time, readily accessible... not because it's any sort of
> authoritative "last word".
> It was reproduced in an issue of The Last Straw as a point of reference
> for a
> piece on moisture years (a decade of more ?) ago.
>
> In both explanations by Jorge and Graeme (or anyone else), it would be
> nice if numbers representing real, somewhat typical scenarios could be
> provided, as opposed to general "impressions".
>
>  ================ stolen Jack Handey "Deep Thought" =========
>         " Instead of having 'answers' on a math test, they should just
> call them
> 'impressions,and if you got a different 'impression,' so what, can't we
> all be
> brothers ?"
> =================== end of petty theft portion ==============
>
> ... since we are talking about things which have been quantified and for
> which
> data exists and the means to utilise that data for the purposes of
> comparison and evaluation exists right at our fingertips on these devices
> which we are all currently using to communicate with each other.
>
> --
> === * ===
> Rob Tom                                 AOD257
> Kanata, Ontario, Canada
>
> < A r c h i L o g i c  at  Y a h o o  dot  c a  >
> (manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit "reply")
> ______________________________**_________________
> GSBN mailing list
> GSBN at sustainablesources.com
> http://sustainablesources.com/**mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN<http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.sustainablesources.com/pipermail/gsbn/attachments/20130320/358932ef/attachment.htm>