[GSBN] Straw Bale House Fire

[Derek Roff]

There are several problems with the anecdotal information around this 
event.  One is that according to the mother of the homeowner, quoted by 
Mark Piepkorn, most of the details published in the press are wrong. 
Presumably, anecdotes in the press will have more impact than more 
accurate information shared on a small scale.

The mother says that the stick frame part of the structure lasted about 
15 minutes, while the strawbale section lasted for hours.  I think this 
difference in wall survival times points up a problem that is likely to 
distort most anecdotal descriptions- comparisons will be made between 
very different fires and different stages of the fire.  When someone 
from the Boulder County Rural Fire Department says that stick frame is 
easy, because you just peel off the drywall or siding, and don't harm 
the structural members, that sounds like it would have had to be within 
the first fifteen minutes of the fire we are discussing.  When this 
person says that the bales were a pain in the butt, these are bales 
that are still standing after some hours of a hot fire.  According to 
the mother's description.

So the person from the fire department is mentally equating his 
previous experience with stick frame fires, handled very soon after the 
fire breaks out, with a smoldering strawbale wall that had lasted 
through much more severe conditions.  The SB wall probably had little 
or no damage at 15 minutes, in this fire.  But this anecdotal reaction 
is normal.  A firefighter will think about the problems that they face 
in differing circumstances, not controlled comparisons in equal 
conditions.

Firefighters have a tough job in so many ways.  They use very 
destructive methods to stop very destructive fires. They want to make 
sure that every spark is dead out.  It's dangerous to do otherwise. 
They have been trained to fight fires in houses very different from 
strawbale.  The smoldering straw in a strawbale wall allows time for a 
considered, nuanced approach.  In the cases that David and Catherine 
described, the smoldering straw could be dealt with hours or days 
later.  Pete removed the smoldering straw by hand.

The piercing nozzle that Don Fisher describes doesn't sound like the 
subtle tool that I would want to use on my strawbale house.  It looks 
like it would inject a large amount of water quickly into a hotspot 
behind the plaster.  I imagine that this would require the subsequent 
removal and replacement of one bale on each side of the hotspot, and 
all the bales below the hotspot (where gravity will guide the water), 
due to water damage and mold concerns.  This would be pretty 
destructive, especially compared to pulling out a few handfuls of 
charred straw.

We have lots to test and learn on these questions.

Derelict

Derek Roff
Language Learning Center
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
Internet: derek at unm.edu



--On Wednesday, April 1, 2009 8:27 PM -0600 john rehorn 
<rehorn at frontier.net> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> I've been reading all of your input with great interest.  All told,
> would you say an insurance underwriter, if so educated, would raise
> or lower premiums based on this anecdotal information?  Seems as
> though we have a superior fire rating as far as hours of safety go,
> but our material poses a real problem for conventional firefighting
> after all the humans and animals are safely out of the house.
> Apologies for my lack of command of firefighting terminology.
>
> Just got off the phone with Jeff Webb of the Boulder County Rural
> Fire Department.  The lead investigator was from the Boulder
> Sheriff's office and reported to Jeff.  Jeff said he was told it was
> a pain in the butt to put out the fire because the walls were
> smoldering and rather than being able to peel off drywall and/or
> exterior sheathing and extinguish the fire without pulling down
> structural members, the structural members themselves (the bales) had
> to be pulled down, chopped apart and extinguished.  Jeff bemoaned the
> fact that more of the building had to be destroyed than if it were
> conventionally built.  Of course the firefighters knew nothing of Don
> Fisher's sb fire extinguishing tool or method, and it would be hard
> to convince any firefighter to leave a smoldering wall up and relying
> solely on heat imaging technology.
>
> It sounds like we have an  immense education challenge ahead of us.
> I shudder and lie awake at night to think what firefighters would do
> to my structural hybrid sb home if I couldn't convince them to stay
> calm and put out the sb portion of the fire slowly and with
> precision.  It makes me want to go out first thing tomorrow morning
> and discuss this information with my local fire station and urge them
> to buy Don Fisher's tool and barring that -- buy it for them.  It
> would be worth the $850.  Can one of GSBN veterans tell me what the
> protocol is on sharing information coming from this network?  I guess
> I feel the info is somewhat sensitive, agreed?
>
> Regarding Martin's question about partnering for testing on earth
> plastered sb walls, I think that the Colorado Straw Bale Association
> by virtue of our mission statement is obligated to partner in this
> endeavor.  Let it be known, however, that we don't have a lot of
> money and would need equitable partnership from all interested
> parties.  David E. or Bruce K., wouldn't you be the folks to
> spearhead the actual testing, while the rest of us contributed
> finances?  Or would it be Don F.
>
> Thanks to everyone for this very informative discussion.
>
> John
>
> John Rehorn	
> Executive Director
> Colorado Straw Bale Association
> www.coloradostrawbale.org
> coloradostrawbale at yahoo.com