[GSBN] earthen floors
Bill Steen
williamsteen11 at gmail.com
Mon Sep 9 20:55:04 UTC 2019
Another thing about sealing floors is that the formula we gave has in many places become gospel. But to understand the history of it all you need to go back to northern New Mexico where there was an era of revitalizing interest in adobe floors, let’s say the 70s. Somewhere around that time or perhaps a little bit later linseed oil started to become increasingly popular in place of used motor oil. More dating here is a little loose, more importantly is to get the gist of it all.
Well most of these floors cracked because they were pouring them somewhere around 3-4 inches deep without developing any kind of mix. Then the cracks would be filled and any number of sealants were used. I remember Chevron Floor Hardener being one of them.
Therefore while we were doing the SBH book we heard about this woman named Anita Rodriguez in Taos New Mexico who had been doing earthen floors that didn’t crack. Of course we went to search her out and plead for her secret process. Rather than going into detail, the process that most people follow that we communicated came from her. As did her process for sealing the floors.
Consequently people seem to have taken that on as gospel and “the” way to seal earth floors. Minor historical note, they were always referred to as “adobe floors,” I coined the term earthen floors for the SBH to make is less confusing.
So basically what I’m saying is that I think the field is wide open for new options. However, one bottom line is that earth ultimately is somewhat of a fragile material when compared to concrete and has limits. To try and make it perform like concrete kind of misses the point.
Bill Steen
williamsteen11 at gmail.com
www.caneloproject.com
520 445 5540 - cell
520 455 5548 - home/office
> On Sep 9, 2019, at 11:51 AM, Barbara Jones <barbara at strawworks.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Very nice reply Bill. Love your simplicity, I know it’s right.
>
> Barbara
>
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> From: Gsbn <gsbn-bounces at sustainablesources.com> On Behalf Of Bill Steen
> Sent: 09 September 2019 15:55
> To: Global Straw Building Network <gsbn at sustainablesources.com>
> Cc: (private, with public archives) Global Straw Building Network <GSBN at greenbuilder.com>
> Subject: Re: [GSBN] earthen floors
>
> Since that time I’d say my opinion has gotten even more simple.
>
> As of today, watching what people are doing, I think this whole thing has been overthought.
> I’ve seen linseed oil formulas of all kind with wax, other oils, what have you.
> My bottom line is I don’t think any of it is necessary.
> There is one thing to be aware of that I think is important and that’s there is a big difference between raw linseed oil and boiled linseed oil. Boiled linseed oil has driers usually added to it and tends to form a skin on the surface wherever it is applied and is very subject to mold.
> I’ve never had a problem using the raw oil.
>
> A few summers ago I got possessed to do some experiments with different oils to see how they worked. I went to the grocery store and bought every inexpensive cooking oil on the shelf, brought them home, heated them up and applied them to floor samples I had made. Result? All of them formed a hard surface that was resistant to scratching. Granted these were not floors subject to wear but my point is that I think it would be valuable to carry that experiment a little further and take a small floor somewhere that will be subject to use and wear and try different oils.
>
> Perhaps the most interesting thing I did recently was after returning from Costa Rica where we had done an event and several floors. The folks there were going to great lengths to try and get a hold of linseed oil for sealing the floors. For me, this defeats the whole purpose for doing them. Paying exorbitantly high prices for a hard to get product to seal an earthen floor makes no sense whatsoever. I discovered that what was available in large quantities at a very inexpensive price was lard. So of course I made some relatively big floor mix samples and sealed them with several coats of lard. Again, like the other oils, they were very abrasion resistant and did not absorb water. The bottom line, test it and see what happens. Not exactly a vegan kind of floor, but hey...
>
> In days gone by, the common sealer for earth floors in the southwest was used motor oil. Any of these would be a step up. So I guess what I’m saying is that it is so easy to get trapped into thinking that there is one way or an exact way of developing natural building solutions and we have to be flexible and broad minded in our work.
>
> Hope this helps Andy and oh, I’d forget trying to put linseed oil in the mix, I don’t think it gives enough benefit.
>
>
> Bill Steen
> williamsteen11 at gmail.com <mailto:williamsteen11 at gmail.com>
> www.caneloproject.com <http://www.caneloproject.com/>
> 520 445 5540 - cell
> 520 455 5548 - home/office
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 6:32 AM, Andy <andy at ecodesignarchitects.co.za <mailto:andy at ecodesignarchitects.co.za>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bill
>> I found the thread about the sealing of earthen floors some years back now
>> to which your contribution was invaluable, a most interesting topic.
>>
>> I was re-reading some of the emails and in your last posting you spoke about
>> possibly experimenting with a polymer that a mine in Mexico were using.
>> What have you discovered since and what has your experience been with using
>> catalysts to assist the drying/curing process of the linseed oil?
>>
>> Best regards
>> Andy Horn
>>
>> www.ecodesignarchitects.co.za <http://www.ecodesignarchitects.co.za/>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: GSBN-bounces at greenbuilder.com <mailto:GSBN-bounces at greenbuilder.com> [mailto:GSBN-bounces at greenbuilder.com <mailto:GSBN-bounces at greenbuilder.com>]
>> On Behalf Of Bill Steen
>> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 10:59 PM
>> To: GSBN at greenbuilder.com <mailto:GSBN at greenbuilder.com>
>> Subject: [GSBN] earthen floors
>>
>> In short, I think a lot has to do with how densely compacted the
>> surface of the floor is. Close the pores and the oil doesn't
>> penetrate much.
>> For a good test, would be best to repeat on floors where the porosity
>> of the surface is different.
>> A lot will have to do with the quantity of aggregate in the mix and
>> size of the particles, therefore size of the pores.
>> But hey, test it and see what works for you. We've had great luck and
>> penetration with full strength on the first coat.
>> Never found much cause to change it.
>> As for linseed oil in the mix, question would be how thick is the
>> application, you could burn up a lot of oil doing it that way.
>> In repairing floors we've sometimes included linseed oil in the mix
>> with good results, but the applications have been very thin.
>> Nonetheless, they have worked well.
>> And if you want to get a lot more mileage out of the linseed oil, use
>> an emulsifier to combine it with the water.
>> Otherwise you'll get poor dispersion of the oil. Casein is ideal for
>> this, works really nice, makes clean up easy.
>> We've used it in plasters over the years with good results, but at 10%
>> by volume of the water, I would not consider it strong enough for a
>> floor.
>> Once again, if you're tempted to try it, experiment and see what you
>> get.
>> In the thin coats we've applied we were using up to 50%, but found it
>> still needed a coat of oil to make it work well.
>> I think the field is wide open for experimentation, just would take
>> some time and dedication.
>> At the moment I'm looking at a polymer being used here in Mexico to
>> stabilize dusty soils at a mine, was very impressive, don't know what
>> makes it up, but will know more soon.
>> But you know, what conclusion I've come to over the years when it
>> comes to this stuff, especially working in Mexico.
>> When it comes down it, more often than not, one goes with what's
>> there, convenient, cost effective and not too much hassle.
>> I'll leave it at that for now.
>>
>> B....
>> Bill Steen
>> canelo at caneloproject.com <mailto:canelo at caneloproject.com>
>> www.caneloproject.com <http://www.caneloproject.com/>
>> www.caneloproject.blogspot.com <http://www.caneloproject.blogspot.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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