[GSBN] Embodied/embedded energy figures

[Danny Buck]

I second Derek's observations.

We have just completed a Passive Haus in Santa Fe with U-12 windows 
imported from Germay. Other than that, we used standard building 
materials for frame construction and the cost was under $145 a square 
foot. So, embodied energy was up to some extent and cost was not.

Yes you need to build tight and ventilate right to certify passiv and I 
am all for that. Sloppy, leaky detailing is part of my history I would 
rather not repeat. (I have the incredible learning experience of 
tightening up a SB home I built 15 years ago and we have come a long 
way, Baby).

We had some very serious fires here this year with terrible air quality 
and I can tell you it was wonderful for the owners of the Passiv Haus to 
have controlled filtered air. If you don't want to use your ERV ($3-4k 
is not hugely expensive and the incoming air often tempers the interior 
air temperatures positively), turn it off and open your windows. You 
know enough to change the air filter in your car I am sure and someone 
choosing to live in a home with controlled air quality can probably 
learn to change that filter too. In fact, there is a good chance they 
have changed the filter on their furnace at some point in their life- 
another achilles heal.

It is good to challenge energy efficiency at the embodied energy level, 
but don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If there is an organization 
turning out homes with a btu/sf/hgd of under 2 for the lifetime of the 
building, cheer them on while encouraging improvement at the 
construction side. No jeering required.

Danny Buck

On 10/20/11 2:28 PM, Derek Roff wrote:
> I think picketing Passiv Haus in Darmstadt is a great idea.  Maybe we 
> could link it to the Occupy [Strawbale] Wall Street protests that are 
> going on in the US.
>
>> I think it is very hard to justify a dependence on mechanical 
>> ventilation to get fresh air into buildings.
>
> I'd like to suggest that it is very difficult to justify every system, 
> choice, and alternative for getting fresh air into buildings.  Or, to 
> put it another way, proper ventilation is a critical issue in 
> buildings, and there are no easy answers.  I'm not in love with 
> mechanical ventilation systems, but I also see a serious problems with 
> most systems in most modern buildings of every size and scale.  Tight 
> buildings usually have some level of problems with indoor air quality, 
> and frequently with moisture.  Part of that comes from materials 
> choices, and a lot comes from ineffective ventilation.  Passive 
> ventilation systems that effectively bring the needed amount of fresh 
> air to all the rooms in a house are challenging to design and 
> implement.  Ignoring the seriousness and challenge of potential 
> ventilation problems usually causes serious problems to manifest in 
> the house sooner /and/ later.  Creating a ventilation system that 
> supports indoor air quality, conserves energy, and prevents moisture 
> problems in the walls is a critical part of design and construction, 
> and one that is seldom successfully met in either conventional 
> construction or natural building.
>
> Derelict
>
> On Oct 18, 2011, at 11:58 PM, Tom Woolley wrote:
>
>> Dear Derek and everyone
>>
>> As I see it Passiv Haus presents one of the biggest challenges to the 
>> Natural Building movement for many years
>> In the Uk , the AECB (http://www.aecb.net <http://www.aecb.net/>) 
>>  used to be a good advocate for low impact building but now it has 
>> sold its soul to Passiv Haus and seems to have reverted to the "Only 
>> energy in use argument"
>> There are of course a number of passiv haus projects that have used 
>> low embodied energy materials ( particularly in Austria) but most do not
>> I have challenged the leading figures of the Passiv Haus movement 
>> face to face to justify why they exclude considerations of embodied 
>> energy but their answer is to say that you can meet their standards 
>> with natural materials. So why not advocate the use of natural 
>> materials then?
>> Many of the Passiv haus approved windows are made from uPVC
>>
>> I think it is very hard to justify a dependence on mechanical 
>> ventilation to get fresh air into buildings.
>> The achilles heel of MVHR systems is changing the filters
>>
>> Fundamentally passiv haus presents a philosophy that buildings can 
>> only be low energy if they use expensive high tech equipment
>> In the UK and Ireland a passiv haus costs between 50 and 100% more 
>> than a conventional low energy house
>>
>> Personally I prefer the Walter Segal philosophy of putting on another 
>> jumper rather than sealing myself up with a lot of plastic and toxic 
>> materials.
>>
>> I will be in Darmstadt in November and am considering mounting a 
>> picket of the Passiv Haus HQ  for an hour or two
>> Anyone want to join me??
>>
>> Tom
>
>
> Derek Roff
> derek at unm.edu <mailto:derek at unm.edu>
>
>
>
>
>
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