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I second Derek's observations. <br>
<br>
We have just completed a Passive Haus in Santa Fe with U-12 windows
imported from Germay. Other than that, we used standard building
materials for frame construction and the cost was under $145 a
square foot. So, embodied energy was up to some extent and cost was
not.<br>
<br>
Yes you need to build tight and ventilate right to certify passiv
and I am all for that. Sloppy, leaky detailing is part of my history
I would rather not repeat. (I have the incredible learning
experience of tightening up a SB home I built 15 years ago and we
have come a long way, Baby). <br>
<br>
We had some very serious fires here this year with terrible air
quality and I can tell you it was wonderful for the owners of the
Passiv Haus to have controlled filtered air. If you don't want to
use your ERV ($3-4k is not hugely expensive and the incoming air
often tempers the interior air temperatures positively), turn it off
and open your windows. You know enough to change the air filter in
your car I am sure and someone choosing to live in a home with
controlled air quality can probably learn to change that filter too.
In fact, there is a good chance they have changed the filter on
their furnace at some point in their life- another achilles heal.<br>
<br>
It is good to challenge energy efficiency at the embodied energy
level, but don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If there is an
organization turning out homes with a btu/sf/hgd of under 2 for the
lifetime of the building, cheer them on while encouraging
improvement at the construction side. No jeering required.<br>
<br>
Danny Buck<br>
<br>
On 10/20/11 2:28 PM, Derek Roff wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4445CAA1-B1AB-4662-9BD0-8296314EDAC3@unm.edu"
type="cite">I think picketing Passiv Haus in Darmstadt is a great
idea. Maybe we could link it to the Occupy [Strawbale] Wall
Street protests that are going on in the US.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica;
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<div>I think it is very hard to justify a dependence on
mechanical ventilation to get fresh air into buildings.</div>
</span></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd like to suggest that it is very difficult to justify
every system, choice, and alternative for getting fresh air
into buildings. Or, to put it another way, proper ventilation
is a critical issue in buildings, and there are no easy
answers. I'm not in love with mechanical ventilation systems,
but I also see a serious problems with most systems in most
modern buildings of every size and scale. Tight buildings
usually have some level of problems with indoor air quality,
and frequently with moisture. Part of that comes from
materials choices, and a lot comes from ineffective
ventilation. Passive ventilation systems that effectively
bring the needed amount of fresh air to all the rooms in a
house are challenging to design and implement. Ignoring the
seriousness and challenge of potential ventilation problems
usually causes serious problems to manifest in the house
sooner <i>and</i> later. Creating a ventilation system that
supports indoor air quality, conserves energy, and prevents
moisture problems in the walls is a critical part of design
and construction, and one that is seldom successfully met in
either conventional construction or natural building. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Derelict</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Oct 18, 2011, at 11:58 PM, Tom Woolley wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family:
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line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">Dear Derek and
everyone
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I see it Passiv Haus presents one of the biggest
challenges to the Natural Building movement for many
years </div>
<div>In the Uk , the AECB (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.aecb.net/">http://www.aecb.net</a>)
used to be a good advocate for low impact building
but now it has sold its soul to Passiv Haus and seems
to have reverted to the "Only energy in use argument"</div>
<div>There are of course a number of passiv haus
projects that have used low embodied energy materials
( particularly in Austria) but most do not </div>
<div>I have challenged the leading figures of the Passiv
Haus movement face to face to justify why they exclude
considerations of embodied energy but their answer is
to say that you can meet their standards with natural
materials. So why not advocate the use of natural
materials then?</div>
<div>Many of the Passiv haus approved windows are made
from uPVC</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think it is very hard to justify a dependence on
mechanical ventilation to get fresh air into
buildings.</div>
<div>The achilles heel of MVHR systems is changing the
filters</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Fundamentally passiv haus presents a philosophy
that buildings can only be low energy if they use
expensive high tech equipment</div>
<div>In the UK and Ireland a passiv haus costs between
50 and 100% more than a conventional low energy house</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Personally I prefer the Walter Segal philosophy of
putting on another jumper rather than sealing myself
up with a lot of plastic and toxic materials.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will be in Darmstadt in November and am
considering mounting a picket of the Passiv Haus HQ
for an hour or two</div>
<div>Anyone want to join me??</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tom</div>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
Derek Roff</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:derek@unm.edu">derek@unm.edu</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br>
</div>
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