[GSBN] building in Haiti

Wed Mar 2 23:12:40 UTC 2011

Thanks again to all of you who have taken the time to chime in!

Bruce

On Mar 2, 2011, at 4:03 AM, Kelly Lerner wrote:

> Hi all,
> I just want to second Derek's concerns/thoughts. I've seen lime  
> delaminating from earth plaster bases in China (not one of my  
> buildings, thankfully) and it's a pretty dramatic failure. You  
> wouldn't want people to see a plaster failure and throw out the  
> whole building system.
>
> Given the wide fluctuations in moisture in the Haitian climate  
> combined with the lack of local experience/knowledge of LoE and high  
> scrutiny for a public project, I'd stick with all earth plaster with  
> a lime wash (earth plaster could have lime putty component) OR a  
> lime plaster OR a lime/cement plaster. Or all of these types of  
> plaster could be tested on a single building as Kim was suggesting,  
> to see how they fare.
>
> Though I'm quite experimental on my own buildings, I tend to be more  
> conservative with public development projects. I would also look for  
> a good local plaster expert in Haiti and let him/her take the lead  
> on developing the right plaster approaches.
>
> Take care and good luck,
>
> Kelly
>
> On Mar 2, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Derek Roff wrote:
>
>> I think you have laid out the odds against successful use of lime  
>> over earth (LoE) plaster pretty well.  There are too many  
>> unknowns.  I'll add a few of more reasons why I would not choose  
>> lime over earth in this, and most, situations.  Failures, when they  
>> happen, are frequently fairly dramatic, with large sections of  
>> plaster delaminating.  In the case of failure, it is not obvious  
>> how to make a repair, or if a repair is possible, without removing  
>> all of the plaster, and replacing the lime with another material.   
>> Failures must be addressed with even more expertise, analysis, and  
>> testing than was available during initial construction.  That  
>> expertise is unlikely to be available.  Failures often come a year  
>> or more after application of the plaster, meaning that the team of  
>> people involved with the building and plastering is likely to be  
>> dispersed.  At the moment of failure, finding anyone with  
>> significant LoE expertise for analysis and repair may be difficult  
>> or impossible.
>>
>> Lime and earth react differently to moisture changes, so LoE  
>> plaster can do fine for a while, and then fail when conditions  
>> change more extremely or more rapidly than usual.  In a location  
>> with variable and dramatic rain and moisture cycles, it's even  
>> harder to predict whether a given plaster job will stand the test  
>> of time, or is just about to fail during the next hurricane.   
>> Finally, as I understand it, the people who will be building and  
>> using these buildings don't have a tradition and experience with  
>> LoE systems, which makes it very difficult for them to do effective  
>> maintenance, address problems, and make effective repairs.
>>
>> There is a tradition of LoE in the Caribbean, coming out of both  
>> French and Spanish colonial periods.  However, almost all of the  
>> knowledge and experience has been lost in the popular context, and  
>> I think there are too many challenges to try and regain the skills  
>> quickly.
>>
>> Derelict
>>
>> Derek Roff
>> Language Learning Center
>> Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
>> University of New Mexico
>> Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
>> 505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
>> Internet: derek at unm.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> --On Tuesday, March 1, 2011 12:11 PM -0800 Bruce King <bruce at ecobuildnetwork.org 
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, folks, we've got a bit of a debate going as to what  
>>> constitutes a
>>> security barrier, which is fine by me, but I for one would really
>>> like to hear more about lime plasters over earth.
>>>
>>>
>>> Answers so far, as well as my experience, suggest that LoE (lime  
>>> over
>>> earth) systems work very well if, and only if, you have a familiar
>>> and consistent mix of lime, clay, straw, etc.  All of the  
>>> ingredients
>>> are finicky (you can't just substitute one lime for another, or one
>>> clay for another), all depend on careful workmanship (application,
>>> curing, scratching, etc.), none are for newbies.
>>>
>>>
>>> In Haiti, though we will have one or two pros running things (maybe
>>> some of y'all), we will be working with a Haitian crew of unknown
>>> skill, using clay, sand and lime whose properties and behavior are
>>> unknown.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are we crazy to even contemplate a LoE system?  Remember, this will
>>> be a very public house seen and scrutinized by a lot of people and
>>> organizations.  There's no room for screwups or excuses.  If it
>>> cracks, or delaminates, or in some other way fails, the whole  
>>> project
>>> looks bad.
>>>
>>>
>>> We'd rather look good.  Any further advice would be much  
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>> PS to Graeme North:  thanks for the tips, I know that cintoflex is
>>> good stuff, and may even be available in Haiti.  And prayers for New
>>> Zealand, you guys got hit hard.  Prayers for Haiti, too;  a year
>>> after their earthquake, the city and country still look like it
>>> happened a week ago, there's that little recovery.  Poverty,
>>> dysfunctional government, and a lack of infrastructure is a fairly
>>> deadly combination that even the most noble and intelligent people
>>> (as are Haitians) can barely overcome.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce King, PE
>>> Director of EBNet
>>> Ecological Building Network
>>> the art and science of building well
>>> bruce at ecobuildnetwork.org
>>> PO Box 6397
>>> San Rafael, CA 94903 USA
>>> (415) 987-7271
>>> follow us on Twitter: @EBNetwork
>>
>>
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>
> Kelly Lerner, Architect
> One World Design Architecture
> 509-838-8812
> www.one-world-design.com
>
> Have you read Natural Remodeling for the Not-So-Green House?  
> Available in Bookstores across the Universe.
> www.naturalremodeling.com
>
>
>
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