[GSBN] Fwd: [SB-r-us] Attic fire, in a straw bale duplex.

[Derek Roff]

Sorry to hear that sad news.  If we are going to get a comprehensive 
answer to the fire odor question, we are going to need a lot more 
fires.  Any volunteers?

>From the description, it sounds unlikely that much smoke got into the 
bales.  That could be tested by cutting a few test holes, removing some 
straw, and testing it for odor.  I think you would have to quickly seal 
the straw in an airtight container, and move it to a different 
location, in order to give it a reliable sniff test.  If the straw 
smells clean, then the odor concerns are with everything else.  I would 
cut some samples of the plaster, too, and sniff test them in a neutral 
location.

My only slightly relevant experience is with fires in a few adobe 
houses.  While the fire odors are sometimes very strong and persistent, 
my impression is that earthen plasters are not a big part of the 
problem.  But coating the plaster with "black, stinky rivulets" of fire 
extinguishing by-products is outside my experience.  Each fire is 
different, of course.  If the odors in the plaster are mild, perhaps an 
additional coat of plaster would suffice.  Maybe American Clay would be 
interested in helping with some testing.

Pondering:  Shellac can be effective in sealing in odors on wood, 
wallboard, and gypsum plasters.  Perhaps it could be used on earthen 
plaster, although I have never heard of anyone trying it.  Lime wash 
might have some positive effect.  What odor remediation techniques are 
commonly used after fires in buildings with plaster walls?

A concern is that odors that are localized at the moment will have 
months to permeate everything, presuming that major rework and cleanup 
is delayed until next Spring, as Frank mentions.

Derelict

Derek Roff
Language Learning Center
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
Internet: derek at unm.edu



--On Thursday, November 4, 2010 7:10 AM -0700 John Swearingen 
<jswearingen at skillful-means.com> wrote:

> Interesting question, and I certainly don't know the answer.
>
>
> Personally, I would assume that the earthen/clay plasters would not
> have allowed much smoke penetration unless there was intense smoke
> for a long period of time.  The question would be how to document
> that to everyone's satisfaction.  It's possible that the walls could
> be tested for the presence of the acidic smoke residues, such as HCl,
>  that are commonly linked to corrosion of metals after a fire.  This
> could establish the depth of smoke penetration into the plaster
> and/or bale walls.
>
>
> The earthen plaster walls can be incrementally eroded down to a level
> where smoke has not penetrated--that is, you could wash/rub/scrape
> off 1/4" or so, down to a safe depth, and then refinish without
> wrecking the whole assembly.
>
>
> Alternatively, you could train a sniffer dog to pee on any wall that
> smells of smoke.
>   
> My two cents and a pack of cigarettes.
>
>
> John

>
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Mark Piepkorn
> <duckchow at potkettleblack.com> wrote:
>
>
> Forwarded message. Please include Frank Tettemer in any replies.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
>
>
>
> From: Frank Tettemer <frank at livingsol.com>
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Three weeks before moving into their new straw bale home in downtown
> Pembroke, Ontario, Canada, Suzanne and Rick have suffered a fire
> which
> started in the cellulose in the attic of their house.  The blame is
> shared between the chimney installer, who only provided a one foot
> high
> clearance collar in the attic, and the insulation company who pumped
> in
> insulation to a depth of 23".
>
> Trusses are damaged, the fire was put out, with plenty of water, in a
> cathedral ceiling.  This means that the water ran down the vapour
> barrier, in the truss area, onto the plaster-capped bale walls, and
> ran
> into the room in black, stinky rivulets, staining all the interior
> plastering, (earthen with American Clay, fiber,manure, and sand.)
> Exterior plaster of lime and sand appears untouched over 95% of the
> wall
> surfaces.
>
> The building structure is post and beam, located within the inside of
> the plaster and bale wall sections, and is unharmed, structurally.
> Only
> two small areas have exposed bales, and that was as a result of the
> firemen chopping into the walls at points that they suspected may
> have
> caught fire.  All in all, the plaster/bale walls are unburnt.
> Clearly, from a structural point of view, the trusses could be
> removed
> next spring, the mess cleaned out, and structurally damaged bales
> (very
> few) could be replaced and replastered.
>
> The insurance folks, and the forensic engineer with whom I have
> spoken
> today, both agree that the main issue is not structural, but is the
> smell, and it's feared ghost-like re-appearance, for years down the
> road.  Their take on it is to bulldoze everything, preserving the
> foundation, and start again, to avoid the stinky-winky odours.
> I'm not totally convinced that the smell has penetrated all the
> walls.
> But I have no way of telling, at present.
> Is there such a thing as a "smell detector"?
> Does anyone have contact info for other bale home owners who have
> experienced a fire restoration?
> I would greatly like to hear all stories connected to restoration
> after
> a fire, both successful and unsuccessful, as all info is useful in
> trying to evaluate the current situation.
>
> Any fire victims out there?  And does it still stink?
>
> Frank Tettemer
>
> --
> Frank Tettemer
> Living Sol ~ Building and Design
> www.livingsol.com
> 613 756 3884