[GSBN] A question about mold and insurance

Tue Oct 6 07:40:22 UTC 2009

Hello,
> I'm hesitant to ask for a mold exclusion as a first step.  It's true 
> that many policies now contain such exclusions.  But millions of 
> policies don't have this exclusion.  I'd rather start from the 
> position that SB houses are equal or better than conventional 
> construction in mold resistance, and accept a mold exclusion only if 
> all residential policies from that company include it.
I agree with Derek. Although a mold exclusion seems like a practical way 
to quickly get arround the obstacle, it feels to me like it could 
amplify the impression that SB buildings are more fragile on this point 
than regular type of buildings. When possible I prefer SB to get the 
same 'credits' as normal building methods (+ its ecological benefits), 
rather than adapting the rules as if it was a less viable technique but 
that we want it used anyway.

Bruce's book, Jakub Wihans thesis (_www.jakubwihan.com/pdf/thesis.pdf) 
<http://www.jakubwihan.com/pdf/thesis.pdf>_ plus testing published by 
CMHC in a nice big envelope will cost only a few dollars, and will show 
that the person sending it and the SB branch in general care about 
quality. And in the end, that is the only thing that can assure a good 
building (building codes are, in my humble opinion, almost useless 
against designers and builders who don't care for quality). A 1 page 
letter from the honoured John Straube placing SB in the 
sheetrock-on-regular-regular-post&beam context and citing a few research 
documents backing up this statement would also be nice to glide in that 
envelop. Then, I would advice to bring the envelop in person and try the 
'David Eisenberg approach' : inviting the assurance person to join us, 
rather than to see him as the big bad wolf.

André - huggin' windmills - de Bouter
France

>
> Derelict
>
> --On Saturday, October 3, 2009 12:30 PM -0400 strawnet at aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> It strikes me that a joint letter from organizations like COSBA and
>> CASBA and any others we might be able to come up with that requests
>> documentation of the claim that this underwriter is making could be
>> helpful. Just a quick thought as I run off to watch my grandson's
>> soccer match...
>>
>> David Eisenberg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kris Dick Biosystems <kjdick at ms.umanitoba.ca>
>> To: (private, with public archives) Global Straw Building Network
>> <GSBN at greenbuilder.com>
>> Sent: Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:15 am
>> Subject: Re: [GSBN] A question about mold and insurance
>>
>>
>> Dear Joyce,
>>
>>
>> Greetings, I trust this finds you well. I would agree with the
>> comments from others about asking the insurance company for their
>> proof. We have done a studies of temperature and moisture within bale
>> systems in Manitoba. I would suggest that moisture content within the
>> wall system can be used as an indicator of the potential for mould
>> growth. It has been my experience that mould is not an issue as long
>> as the building envelope has been done well, which would be the same
>> for any building system.
>>
>>
>> Not sure if this helps.
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Kris
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3-Oct-09, at 5:13 AM, Joyce Coppinger wrote:
>>
>>
>> Wendy left a message for me on Friday and I sent her an email last
>> night asking her if she knew anything more specific about why the
>> insurance company and mortgage lender were raising mold as an issue.
>> I?ll share her response.
>>
>>
>> Joyce
>>  ---------------
>> Joyce Coppinger
>>  Managing Editor/Publisher
>>  The Last Straw, the international journal
>>  of strawbale and natural building
>>  PO Box 22706, Lincoln NE 68542-2706
>>  402.483.5135, fax 402.483.5161
>>  <thelaststraw at thelaststraw.org>
>>  web site: www.thelaststraw.org
>>  and our new blog at http://tls.buildearth.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's difficult to respond to this, since documenting the absence of
>> mold is a somewhat like proving it doesn't snow in the Sahara:
>> everyone knows it doesn't, but who's collecting data?
>>
>> There are, in fact, rumors and suspicions about moldy straw, but I
>> know of nothing that indicates problems are greater than for wood-fr
>> ame construction.
>>
>> It would be entirely appropriate to ask the underwriter the hard
>> data, if any, behind their assertion that strawbale buildings are
>> prone to mold.  You can also go to a different underwriter.
>>
>> John "Overwriter" Swearingen
>>
>>
>> seems to me this could be approached from two directions: to document
>> the absence of mold (a little like proving a negative)
>>
>> don't know of any studies.  It would be very helpful (and
>> interesting) to know if the underwriter themselves know of any
>> studies and/or what is the basis of their judgment,
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 3:53 PM,  <strawnet at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> This came to us at DCAT and I wanted to share it here to see if
>> anyone has information that might help resolve this issue. Obviously
>> the insurance underwriter has the opinion that sb houses are prone to
>> mold, so one question is, based on what evidence or documentation or
>> studies? Of course they are in the driver's seat on this - they can
>> make unsubstantiated claims and the burden is then on us to disprove
>> them if we can. It would be good to hear from John Straube on this,
>> as well as anyone else with information that could help.
>>
>> I have told her about the GSBN archives but will try to pass along
>> your responses to her as well. And I have also copied my reply=2 0to
>> her, asking if it was OK with her that I post this here, to Joyce at
>> The Last Straw. Thanks for sharing what you all know...
>>  David
>>
>> ------------------
>>  Question: Have you or do you know of anyone who has researched mold
>> in strawbale houses. I have just been denied insurance because the
>> underwriter states that sb houses are prone to mold. All my research
>> over the past 10 years and during the building process is quite the
>> oppisite, but i need facts to persuade the ignorant. Also my motgage
>> co would love to cancel my loan if the insurance does not come thru.
>> We have been with this company for 4 years and 3 of it during the
>> building process. Are you able to help?
>>  Thank you Wendy
>>  ------------------
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> Kris J. Dick, Ph.D., P.Eng.
>> Associate  Professor
>> Director - The Alternativ e Village
>> Dept. of Biosystems Engineering
>> Rm E1-344 EITC
>> University of Manitoba
>> R3T 5V6
>>
>>
>> T:204-474-6457
>> F:204-474-7512
>> kjdick at ms.umanitoba.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kris J. Dick, Ph.D.,P.Eng
>> Principal
>> Building Alternatives Inc.
>> P.O. Box 22
>> Anola,Manitoba, Canada R0E 0A0
>>
>>
>> F: 204-866-3287
>> kjdick at highspeedcrow.ca
>>
>>
>>
>> =
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> Derek Roff
> Language Learning Center
> Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
> University of New Mexico
> Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
> 505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
> Internet: derek at unm.edu
>
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