<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [GSBN] Straw on edge with stick (stud) frame</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'>Hi Jim,<BR>
<BR>
The system Jacob mentions (invented?) uses “dense-packed” cellulose insulation between framing, and tight against the already stacked bales. I included this in a recent code change proposal for Appendix S – Strawbale Construction in the International Residential Code (IRC). You can see the added language underlined in the section below. It was approved in April and will be in the 2018 IRC. (The IRC is the model residential code in the U.S.)<BR>
<BR>
Jacob, and others who practice this method in the northeast U.S. wanted this explicitly allowed in the U.S. SB code because it was being or they feared it being questioned or disallowed by building officials.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<B>AS104.2 Purpose, and where required.</B> Strawbale walls shall be finished so as to provide mechanical protection, fire resistance and protection from weather and to restrict the passage of air through the bales, in accordance with this appendix and this code. Vertical strawbale wall surfaces shall receive a coat of plaster not less than 3/8 inch (10 mm) thick, or greater where required elsewhere in this appendix, or shall fit tightly against a solid wall panel <U>or dense-packed cellulose insulation with a density of not less than 3.5 pounds per cubic foot (56 kg/cubic meter) blown into an adjacent framed wall</U>. The tops of strawbale walls shall receive a coat of plaster not less than 3/8 inch (10 mm) thick where straw would otherwise be exposed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Related to this I’ve used 2x4 studs at 46” (117 cm) with stacked 3-string bales on edge in between. The studs nestle into the curved-corner joint between stacks of bales and stacks fit tight at bale ends. A minimal roof bearing assembly the width of the bales bears on the studs (which are on the outside wall face only). I call it a “light post and beam” system.<BR>
<BR>
David Arkin (on this list) and others have used a similar system, but with TJIs (‘truss joists’) installed vertically like studs, with bales stacked between them. Unlike the system I’ve used, it has a vertical framing member both inside and outside (the ‘flanges’ of each truss joist) and with great out-of-plane strength, allowing for tall walls or other high out-of-plane demand designs. It has minimal thermal bridging through the OSB web of each truss joist.<BR>
<BR>
These systems don’t do one thing I think you’re trying to achieve. That is, adding a layer of insulation to the stacked straw bales. I like that you use wool between the studs in your system, as long as it’s packed tightly against the bales and framing. Trying to avoid uninterrupted vertical spaces that could be a “chimney” for fire.<BR>
<BR>
Best.<BR>
<BR>
Martin<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="2"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:8pt'><B><I>Martin Hammer, Architect<BR>
</I></B>1348 Hopkins St.<BR>
</SPAN><SPAN STYLE='font-size:7pt'>Berkeley, CA 94702<BR>
510-525-0525 (office)<BR>
510-684-4488 (cell)<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 7/5/16, 8:45 AM, "Jim Carfrae" <<a href="jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk">jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Thanks Bruce<BR>
<BR>
I’m adding an extra layer of insulation to keep up with current standards like PassivHaus (I don’t build PassivHaus, but clients like to hear that you’re using similar levels of insulation….)<BR>
<BR>
Unless anyone else wants to chip in, I’ll reference Jacob as the originator.<BR>
<BR>
Jacob, If I continue using a version of this method would you like to be credited in the documentation for planning approval etc?<BR>
<BR>
Jim<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'><B>From: </B>Gsbn <<a href="gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com">gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com</a>> on behalf of Bruce EBNet <<a href="bruce@ecobuildnetwork.org">bruce@ecobuildnetwork.org</a>><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Tuesday, 5 July 2016 at 16:10<BR>
<B>To: </B>Global Straw GSBN <<a href="gsbn@sustainablesources.com">gsbn@sustainablesources.com</a>><BR>
<B>Subject: </B>Re: [GSBN] Straw on edge with stick (stud) frame<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'> <BR>
Jim — <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>I’ll chime in here just to say that I first heard of the system from Jacob, so as far as I know he deserves credit. (Thanks, Jacob!). You can add other insulation fairly easily, but generally don’t need to, other than to plug the thermal bridges created by the wood studs where there is no straw.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Bruce<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>On Jul 5, 2016, at 7:11 AM, Jim Carfrae <<a href="jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk">jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Hi Dan<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
<BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>My interest was mainly to do with combining the structural simplicity of a stick frame with the potential for significant extra insulation, as in the StrawCell example.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Does your system involve much additional insulation? <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>In the UK I have been using a 4 by 2 frame with wool as the insulation between the studs. This combines with the straw to reduce the U value from a nominal 0.16 W/m2K for a rendered straw wall down to 0.11 W/m2K for the hybrid wall.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Jim<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'><B>From: </B>Gsbn <<FONT COLOR="#800080"><a href="gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com">gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com</a></FONT> <<a href="mailto:gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com">mailto:gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com</a>> > on behalf of Dan Smith <<FONT COLOR="#800080"><a href="dan@dsaarch.com">dan@dsaarch.com</a></FONT> <<a href="mailto:dan@dsaarch.com">mailto:dan@dsaarch.com</a>> ><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Tuesday, 5 July 2016 at 14:48<BR>
<B>To: </B>Global Straw Building Network <<FONT COLOR="#800080"><a href="gsbn@sustainablesources.com">gsbn@sustainablesources.com</a></FONT> <<a href="mailto:gsbn@sustainablesources.com">mailto:gsbn@sustainablesources.com</a>> ><BR>
<B>Subject: </B>Re: [GSBN] Straw on edge with stick (stud) frame<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"> <BR>
</FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'>Hi Jim,<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><FONT FACE="Arial"><BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">We’ve been working with a similar system of bales "on end" between 2x studs at 2’ o.c., with ply/fiber board on the exterior, and have a large addition to an adobe house planned to use it soon, working with Bruce King as engineer. I’d be happy to chat as well and send details.<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman">Dan Smith<BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><BR>
</FONT></SPAN><FONT COLOR="#007D26"><FONT SIZE="6"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:18pt'>d s a</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE="6"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:18pt'> <FONT COLOR="#515151">architects<BR>
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#515151"><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:9pt'>1107 Virginia Street | Berkeley | CA 94702<BR>
ph. 510.526.1935 | </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:9pt'><FONT COLOR="#800080">www.dsaarch.com</FONT><FONT COLOR="#515151"> <<a href="http://www.dsaarch.com/">http://www.dsaarch.com/</a>> <BR>
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>On Jul 5, 2016, at 6:35 AM, Jim Carfrae <<FONT COLOR="#800080"><a href="jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk">jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk</a></FONT> <<a href="mailto:jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk">mailto:jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk</a>> > wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Hi Jacob <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Thanks for the response.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>I have been experimenting with a version of this technique myself, and I principally wanted to find out if:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>1)</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:7pt'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>I was using someone else’s ‘protected’ design.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>2)</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:7pt'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>It might feature in an upcoming academic paper, and I wanted to know who to reference as the originator.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
<BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>The post that I saw had a photo of a demonstration wall section and a couple of SketchUp drawings – Was that you?<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Cheers, <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Jim <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="4"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'><B>From: </B>Gsbn <<FONT COLOR="#800080"><a href="gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com">gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com</a></FONT> <<a href="mailto:gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com">mailto:gsbn-bounces@sustainablesources.com</a>> > on behalf of Jacob Racusin <<FONT COLOR="#800080"><a href="buildnatural@googlemail.com">buildnatural@googlemail.com</a></FONT> <<a href="mailto:buildnatural@googlemail.com">mailto:buildnatural@googlemail.com</a>> ><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Tuesday, 5 July 2016 at 13:39<BR>
<B>To: </B>Global Straw Building Network <<FONT COLOR="#800080"><a href="gsbn@sustainablesources.com">gsbn@sustainablesources.com</a></FONT> <<a href="mailto:gsbn@sustainablesources.com">mailto:gsbn@sustainablesources.com</a>> ><BR>
<B>Subject: </B>Re: [GSBN] Straw on edge with stick (stud) frame<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Hi Jim, <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>We've been doing this technique for a few years now, in a few different ways. We coined a term "StrawCell" to describe the hybrid system, a web search for that term should turn up a few blog posts and videos. I'm not sure if I was the originator of the post, as others have been using this technique as well, but I'd be happy to chat further.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Cheers,<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Jacob<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>On Mon, Jul 4, 2016 at 4:58 AM, Jim Carfrae <<FONT COLOR="#800080"><a href="jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk">jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk</a></FONT> <<a href="mailto:jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk">mailto:jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk</a>> > wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Hello<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>A couple of years ago details of a bale wall system using bales on edge against a stick frame were posted here.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>I can’t find the original post, and would like to contact the originators of the idea.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Can anyone out there help?<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Jim<BR>
</SPAN><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Dr Jim Carfrae<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Environmental Building Group<BR>
Room 302 Roland Levinsky Building<BR>
School of Architecture, Design and Environment<BR>
Plymouth University<BR>
Drake Circus<BR>
Plymouth PL4 8AA<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>07880 551922<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#800080"><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'><a href="jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk">jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk</a></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'> <<a href="mailto:jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk">mailto:jim.carfrae@plymouth.ac.uk</a>> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>