<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">an interesting discussion and one that goes to the heart of many matters that I am far too busy to really com net on here - <div><br></div><div>but there are really two issues here - or three - as I see it. </div><div><br></div><div>One is getting better - natural - materials into mainstream construction with all the attendant advantages that we all on this list perceive.</div><div>The second is that making prefab panels that are just as reliant on off-site factories, are as remote, or are as expensive as conventional materials is not all that advantageous.</div><div>The third is getting architects to understand and design for these materials -there are many stories of daftness and inappropriate design, - and there is what I agree is a very sad comment "I wanted a bale house but I got a house with bales in the walls."</div><div><br></div><div>And the fourth is empowering and encouraging owner builders. This is were we get warmth that is not measured by a thermometer.</div><div><br></div><div>OH - A lovely little bird ( a fantail) has just flown into my office and is singing its wee heart out for me as it catches flies.</div><div><br></div><div>See some of yo al at ISBC</div><div><br></div><div>Graeme</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> <br><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 26/02/2016, at 7:26 AM, Robert Gay <<a href="mailto:valleymind@earthlink.net">valleymind@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/24/2016 7:59 PM, Bob Theis wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:0DCA5738-5BE9-4C04-B1D6-C87A9D24B633@bobtheis.net" type="cite">Chris has been advocating for prefabricating bale
walls for so many years, and wondering why the slow uptake of the
approach, that he merits a considered reply from one of the
holdouts.
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<div class="">It’s all Matts’ and Judy’s fault. When they gave
their first straw bale workshop in California, I had just
finished some stud-framed projects where I was calling for
double stud walls to get some visual weight, and beating the
plasterers over the head to create surfaces and corners that
were NOT perfectly straight and flat. I came away saying, “
There must be a way to create thick informal walls that’s
intrinsically thick, intrinsically informal. “ …and I got my
answer. Straw bale was thick , it was informal, and if you
wanted perfect surfaces and straight corners that was extra
work, instead of extra work to relax them. </div>
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<div class="">And I wasn’t alone. When the first bale project
got some publicity, we were getting a LOT of phone calls from
people who wanted to know more. This was 1992, before all the
wonderful books, so we’d spend considerable time with these
calls, and it was evident that, while the ecological and
superinsulative qualities gave them <i class="">permission </i>to
pursue this offbeat technique, it was the relaxed character of
the walls that was the real pull. The emotional pull. </div>
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<div class="">Maybe it was our cartoon-based upbringing. Witness
Mickey Mouse’s kitchen at Disney World. Try not to barf at the
saccharine color scheme, and focus on the room and objects,
because this is by folks who know what appeals. The basic
geometry is still rectangular, but the hard edges have been
taken off. </div>
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<div class="">So I bow before the success of prefabrication in
reducing the costs of bale building, but continue to fret
about the stiffness that this moves the material toward. Yes,
you can plaster bale filled panels by hand, and be as informal
about the resulting surface as you care to be, but it is
primarily the edges where we read the nature of the walls, and
prefabricated panels give you machine-made edges. </div>
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<div class="">To me, the most sobering, and challenging,
statement in the bale literature is still the woman who said, “
I wanted a bale house, but what I got is a house with bales in
the walls.” </div>
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<div class="">I’m sure large parts of the population will be
perfectly happy with bales in the walls. Especially if it makes
the difference between having a house or not. </div>
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<div class=""> But it feels like movement in the wrong
direction. </div>
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<div class="">Bob</div>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
Greetings all, from a GSBN lurker of sorts, a Sonoran-desert friend
of Matts and David E, in Tucson:<br>
<br>
I heartily second Bob Theis's comment about curvature, softness, and
personality of hand-built bale walls. In early talks with potential
bale clients, I always tell 'em that bale walls have personality and
natural irregularity, and (tactfully) ask if their personality is OK
with that quality. This is especially important for the ones who
haven't been in many -- or any -- bale projects, and simply think
bale building sounds like a good idea. <br>
<br>
<span><hdbggjgh.png></span>
(Rachel Shiamh home, Wales)<br>
<br>
Bob's remarks touch on a very large, yet generally unarticulated,
battle in the culture: the efficiency and flatness of machine
production vs. the eccentricity and variability of making things by
hand. It's the battle of organic form-making vs. Cartesian
geometry...forms that come from VERY local decisions vs. those that
"trickle down" from the X and Y axes and resulting grid-mind as a
way of dividing the world. <br>
<br>
Of course Rene Descartes' axes are useful -- as when we want to cut
a stud to a certain length, for example -- but <br>
(and here comes another rant) <br>
at the large scale, the graph-paper world view has led much land
division to entirely disregard natural earth-based boundaries such
as mountain ranges and watersheds. When surveyors chopped up the
world into "townships," "sections" and "ranges," then refined it
down to acres and SQUARE feet, they started placing property lines
over landscapes that are not at all divided that way. The result of
graph-papering the world, I've come to feel, is part of the last
couple of centuries' alienation of humans from nature, something the
early years of the bale-building revival helped address.<br>
<br>
The two epistemologies -- organic (to use a belabored but also
beloved word) vs. Cartesian -- can easily be seen in almost all maps
of political boundaries. My home state, Arizona, for instance, does
have the Colorado River as most of its western boundary, but the
other 3 sides are from Descartes. Colorado, Utah and Wyoming are
purely Cartesian, and the "Four Corners" monument (which I've stood
on) is a purely Cartesian land experience. <br>
<br>
Interestingly, a few big rivers, and the coasts and Great Lakes
force the grid-mind to stop. The USGS has this map showing the 2
ways of thinking (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/1768/pp1768.pdf">http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/1768/pp1768.pdf</a>) <br>
<span><USGS biogeographical regions.jpg></span><br>
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<br>
No one has a politically viable way to change the state
boundaries, but we CAN nurture biogeographical awareness whenever
possible. In our own little arenas, we can all find our own tiny
ways to keep Descartes in his place and let systemic, biological,
organic understanding grow!<br>
<br>
End of rant ~~ thanks for listening.<br>
<span><Signature Robert SMALLER.jpg></span><br>
Robert Gay<br>
Radius Architects<br>
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