<div dir="ltr"><div>For the "igloo" method, we did do a bale vault in the desert. One source of concern we had was about vapor being able to escape to the outside, since the latex roof membrane was directly on the bales. After plastering, the bales contained a lot of moisture, and the house wasn't occupied, and with the building at an equilibrium with the outside temperature, little drying was happening, and we went running to Dr. Straube for advice. He suggested we turn on the air conditioning, and that created enough temperature differential to drive the vapor to the outside. I'm not sure I would do a roof anywhere but the desert without some sort of venting at the top of the bales.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>An interesting feature we noted in our monitoring was that the vapor moved around in the bales in the vault quite a bit following the heat of the sun. We've observed this in walls, as well--vapor moves freely around inside the bales following temperature conditions, particularly from the sun. One thing this means is that if you have a condensing surface at the top of the bales (often the case), and a source of excessive moisture (air leak), heat will drive vapor to the top of the wall where it may condense and cause damage.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Nice bulidings, Jorge. On the first house, what's the ceiling? It looks like wood slats...<br></div><div><br></div><div>John "I go Igloo" Swearingen</div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Van Krieken <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vankrieken@gmail.com" target="_blank">vankrieken@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Feile<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>1. As well as in the walls, the gaps bettween the bales on the roof have to be carefully closed with loose straw. Its a easy task, but it takes time to be really well done (as everything else, I guess! :-)</div>
<div><br></div><div>2. When you put the bales on the roof (and afterwords the top wood structure) you'll notice that its not really very flat (as the walls aren't), so, if you just plaster it you'll find many places with 5, 6, 7 or even more cm of plaster. Thats very heavy. This is one of the reasons I prefer to use LECA mixed with the lime (just enought to agregate the LECA), because we can put 5, 6 or more cm without a height problem. I do not thing you need to put it on the bottom side of the bales, the ones in contact with the OSB, but before puting the bales I spray OSB and bales with a generous borax dilution, let it well dry and then put the bales. You may also wanto to use a special anti-fire OSB in the roof.</div>
<div><br></div><div>3. The fllor. because we need thermal mass, we use a 20 cm limecreet (stones, 1/2 lime and 1/2 cement). Then 5 or 6 cm of sand mixed with 50% lime and 50% white cement (just a little water on it). When is still fresh, we apply the powder: white cement and natural ochre with a tiny little bit of red (iron sulphate). In that particular case we used 700 g white cement + 150 g ochre + 10 g of red. After, you should apply some wax or natural vernish (we use form <a href="http://www.ecospaints.com" target="_blank">www.ecospaints.com</a> ). Thats it. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I like the "igloo" method (complete surrounded by insulation) to make a house. Its looks to me that is much more easy and fast, and with no thermal leeks. We are also building several houses with cork, using the same "Igloo" procedure. You may see one here (we have build this one in 12 days, 6 persons (140 m2).</div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.queridacasa.com" target="_blank">http://www.queridacasa.com</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Hope you enjoy! All the best</div><div><br></div><div>Jorge Van Krieken</div>
<div>Portugal</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br> l<div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Feile Butler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:feile@mudandwood.com" target="_blank">feile@mudandwood.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Thanks to all of you for your replies</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Danny and Jorge - you both mention the difficulty
in packing the gaps between bales effectively. I suspected that might be a
problem - so good to get your practical experience in the field.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">You both also say that sealing with plaster is the
best way to achieve fire rating. Bohdan mentioned a fire test from Germany -
does anyone know who the author is so that I could look it up? Or does anyone
have information on thicknesses of plaster required to achieve various fire
ratings?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Bohdan - I understand why you are questioning why
they don't just use a natural fibre batt. I think a big part of the reason is
ethos. The clients have access to plenty of locallly produced straw bales -
which are as close to an unprocessed but effective insulation product as they
can get. I suppose another option would be to look at accessing and cleaning a
load of sheep fleeces. But if that is not an option - then they need to buy a
manufactured product. Only sheep's wool is produced in Ireland (which would be a
good option), but it is manufactured in the exact opposite corner of the
country. Anything else (wood fibre, hemp) would have to be imported from
Europe.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">But, as you say, if we end up using an excessive
amount of timber to support the bales, then that is not a truly sustainable
solution either. It's always a balancing act! </font><font face="Arial">As
I said in the previous email - we're just exploring the option at the
moment.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Jorge - I thought that was interesting that you
used the LECA with the lime - I presume you did it to have achieve the maximum
insulation values. But with an entire bale doing the job for you, do you think
that was an excessive detail? Or was there another reason I missed?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">I also have to say I LOVED the look of the house
when it was entirely enclosed with bales - great to see bale walls AND
roof.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">And as an aside - I love the colour of the floor
too, particularly the yellow. Was that an earth floor? Did you have very pale
earth on the site and pigment it up with ochre? It's a really beautiful
finish.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Cheers</font></div><span><font color="#888888">
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Feile</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
</font></span><blockquote style="border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px"><div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial;background-color:rgb(228,228,228)"><b>From:</b>
<a title="vankrieken@gmail.com" href="mailto:vankrieken@gmail.com" target="_blank">Van
Krieken</a> </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="GSBN@sustainablesources.com" href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">Global Straw Building Network</a>
</div>
</div><div><div><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 03, 2014 10:44
PM</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [GSBN] Straw Bale Insulated
Ceiling</div>
<div><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">I used strawbales in the roof, with a special atention to fill
the voids between the bales (its quite time consuming). We sealed the bales
with a hidrated (or aerial) natural lime mixed with expanded clay aggregate.
<div>You may see some pictures here: <a href="http://strawhouses.carbonmade.com" target="_blank">http://strawhouses.carbonmade.com</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>All the best</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Jorge Van Krieken</div>
<div>Portugal</div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Danny Buck <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dannycbuck@msn.com" target="_blank">dannycbuck@msn.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div style="font-style:normal;padding-left:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10pt;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none;padding-top:15px" name="Compose message area" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div>
<div>Our experience here in New Mexico was that the roof structure gave us a
lot of voids between bales that were very challenging to pack. If it is a
true attic with a flat open surface to work off of, that would be
different.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The surface of the bale that is accessible to air (oxygen) is best
sealed with a plaster. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Danny Buck</div>
<div>Daniel Buck Construction, Inc.</div>
<blockquote style="border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px">
<div>
<div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><b>From:</b>
<a title="mailto:feile@mudandwood.com" href="mailto:feile@mudandwood.com" target="_blank">Feile Butler</a> </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><b>To:</b>
<a title="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">Global Straw
Building Network</a> </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, February 03, 2014 2:57 AM</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><b>Subject:</b>
[GSBN] Straw Bale Insulated Ceiling</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Hi All</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">I have clients who are considering insulating
above the ceiling with straw bales. They have a large attic which could
easily accommodate the bales and plenty of outbuildings, so they don't
need the attic for storage.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">I have never detailed a straw bale ceiling before,
but would like to explore the idea. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">One of my main concerns is fire. </font><font face="Arial">Is it enough to encapsulate the bales within
plasterboard/clayboard on both sides (top and bottom)? If we want to deck
out the floor above the bales, would it be enough to coat them in a lime
or earth plaster before building up the floor above them? </font><font face="Arial">Is there any data out there about the behaviour of straw bales
in ceilings that I can show the building control officer, particularly
with regard to fire?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Any advice on or experience of straw bale insulated
ceilings would be very welcome.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Thanks</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">
<div><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">F<span><span>é</span></span>ile
Butler</span></b></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><strong><font size="1" face="Arial">MRIAI B.Arch Dip.
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<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><strong>T:
<a href="tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2071%20930%200488" value="+353719300488" target="_blank">+353 (0) 71 930
0488</a><span></span></strong></span><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><span></span><u></u><strong>M:
<a href="tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2086%20806%208382" value="+353868068382" target="_blank">+353 (0) 86 806 8382</a></strong><u></u></span><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,0);font-size:10pt"><u></u><font color="#000000"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><strong>E :
</strong><strong></strong></span><span lang="EN-IE"><a title="about:blank"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt" lang="EN-US"><strong><font color="#0066cc" size="1">feile@mudandwood.com</font></strong></span></a></span></font><u></u></span><u></u></span><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><u></u><strong><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,0);font-size:10pt"><u></u><span lang="EN-IE"></span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><font color="#000000">W:<font size="1"></font><a title="mhtml:{AACFA5AA-422F-463C-803B-AB35086D2473}mid://00000135/!x-usc:http://www.mudandwood.com/"><font color="#0066cc" size="1"></font></a><font color="#0066cc" size="1"><a title="about:blank">www.mudandwood.com</a></font></font></span><u></u></span><u></u></span></strong><u></u></span><u></u></span></p>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><font face="'trebuchet ms', sans-serif"><span style="font-size:x-small"><font color="#666666">John Swearingen<br>Skillful Means Design & Construction<br>
2550 9th Street Suite 209A<br>Berkeley, CA 94710<br>510.849.1800 phone<br>510.849.1900 fax<br><br>Web Site: <a href="http://www.skillful-means.com" target="_blank">http://www.skillful-means.com</a><br>Blog: <a href="https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com" target="_blank">https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com</a></font></span></font>
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