<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div>It's great to refresh this recurring conversation about the place of straw bale building, or more broadly natural building, in the industrial economies that surround most of us. Super complex, of course, and there will always be this blind-men-and-the-elephant quality to our discussion. (If you don't know that reference, google Rudyard Kipling).</div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps most or even all of us on this list can envision a world that works for everyone -- regenerative, localized, safe, healthy, lively. Some of us even create or encounter tastes of what that could be like in little oases in Vermont, Wales and Wagga Wagga.</div><div><br></div><div>And it's good to have a vision and work towards that in whatever way we can. But it seems to me that the job of this generation and the next one or two is transition (or triage, depending on how you see it) -- how do we get from this messy situation we have to something considerably saner and better? In that context, using straw bales for building, even when they are products of the industrialized agriculture that is so much a part of the Problem, is still a very good thing. Possibly not where Jacob and others live, where straw has high value either put back into the soil or whatever. But here in California, and I suspect most places where there is icky large scale agriculture, straw tends to get burned -- turned into particulate and carbon pollution. And straw is being produced, and probably always will be, in huge volume because it is the by-product of producing our most fundamental food -- cereal grains. As any good poker player knows, you play the hand you're dealt, and we got a lot of straw.</div><div><br></div><div>Many years ago I toured a rice farm with our own Rick Green (Rick are you on this list?), a rice farmer and bale builder. He told me that the fields we were viewing -- dead flat land in every direction to the horizon -- were essentially sterile and exhausted. Every Spring when he planted his crop, he had to also add the nutrients and pesticides that would foster and protect its growth. The land was essentially a canvas on which to mix seeds and nutrients, then expose them to sun and water; he grows rice with oil. He added, however, that the pesticides dissipated within months, and was confident that no unpleasant residues would be found on either the grain or the straw. (I have never looked further to verify that, but believe it to be so.)</div><div><br></div><div>All of which is a long-winded buildup to saying: Build it with Bales! If the straw in your region is being burned or wasted to any extent, and if you can improve upon whatever widespread housing type is common (pretty easy to improve on concrete block in the Himalayas, for just one example), then use those bales. Or as the case may be, use that straw to make your own bales like Martin, Andy and Tina in Haiti, or make prefab straw walls like many on this list, or compressed blocks like some others of us on this list. But use that straw, we've only just begun to explore all the ways.</div><div><br></div><div>Bruce "Icky is in the eye of the beholder" King</div><div><br></div><div> </div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Dec 21, 2013, at 9:37 AM, John Swearingen <<a href="mailto:jswearingen@skillful-means.com">jswearingen@skillful-means.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>Interesting discussion. We had an engineer from Ladakh visit the office. He was interested in building with straw because of the great insulation value. The Indian military has a big presence there, and they've built uninstalled concrete block buildings which they heat with very polluting diesel boilers. The problem is that for the native Ladakhis, the small amount of straw that's produced locally is a very valuable commodity with many uses; putting it into buildings would be a downgrade. His idea was to import straw from India. Sounds crazy, but the Indian military has a continuous stream of supply trucks going up Highway 1 from Shrinigar to Ladakh, the world's highest highway. Often these trucks carry heavy, but small equipment, leaving space on the truck for light but bulky material, such as straw--the straw could get a free ride. I don't know how that's going. He said the greatest obstacle is that the military governors in Ladakh make a considerable amount in kickbacks on the diesel trade, a disincentive for buildings that conserve energy. </div>
<div><br></div>Just out of curiosity, I found two maps of roughly similar scale. The first shows rice fields in the Sacramento Valley ONLY. (incidentally part of a study about how pesticide run-off might be negatively affecting salmon. The second is a map of Vermont. It's hard to grasp the extent of rice growing. A study in 1990 put the acreage of rice BURNED at about 1.2 million acres.. <div>
It wouldn't be a complete exaggeration to say it's as if all of Vermont were covered in rice paddies and ....interesting thought.<br></div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://ca.water.usgs.gov/projects/PFRG/images/SacramentoValleyRice_Full.jpg" alt="Inline image 1" width="322" height="420"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Vermont_wind_resource_map_50m_800.jpg" alt="Inline image 2" width="324" height="420"><br>
</div><div><br></div><div>But I ramble.....</div><div><br></div><div>John</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Jacob Deva Racusin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:buildnatural@googlemail.com" target="_blank">buildnatural@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Really interesting. Here on the east coast, common cover crops
(green manures) are rye, wheat, buckwheat, oat - all common cereal
straws we see in buildings (maybe not so much buckwheat, and oat's a
bit weak but works alright for in-fill walls). They all have
different benefits for soil - rye is good for arresting spring
erosion given its growth culture, buckwheat is a quick crop, oat is
a good nurse crop - and certainly tilth may be more favorable than
nutrient availability for some of these, but I'm out of my knowledge
base here - suffice to say cereal grains are commonly planted for
cover cropping out here. I understand that the timing in which they
are integrated as a cover crop is not necessarily the same as a
harvest crop, but tilling in is a common practice in sustainable
grain production (when the crop isn't marketable or prioritized) -
although I'm sure it's much more nuanced than that (Derek,
interesting point about disease). John, sounds like rice is quite a
different story!<br>
<br>
I'm happy to hear that there is such good abundance out west - seems
like this is much less of an issue out there. I've noticed straw
being less abundant in the 12 years I've been building with it -
granted, some years are worse than others and seasonal variations
abound. Honestly, I don't know enough about the big picture here to
comment much further - part of the reason I take interest in this
topic, lots more for me to learn. I don't want to take supply for
granted, and since straw isn't a 'resource distribution' (aka waste)
problem out here, I'm still a bit unsettled about how our burgeoning
industry fits into the bigger picture. Really, if this is what
we're concerned with, we're doing great compared to most of the rest
of the building industry - but it's not the complete no-brainer east
coast as it still seems to be west coast. I continue to be humbled
by the intricacies of the ecologies and economies in which we
operate. Thanks John for describing more about the environment in
which rice straw is used as a resource in your neck of the woods,
very interesting indeed.<br>
<br>
Like Derek, I too am interested in others' experiences with straw
sourcing and regional production. I'm grateful for the diversity of
opinions and regions represented on this list.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Jacob<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>On 12/20/13, 11:20 PM, Derek Stearns
Roff wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
However, this part of the discussion reminds me of the distance
between what could be and perhaps should be, and how things
currently work. It's true that almost all agriculture is pulling
nutrients from the soil, and replacing them with artificial
fertilizers. Plants have been bred to minimize the waste products
and maximize the salable products. So even if all stalks and roots
were returned to the soil, a large amount of mass would still be
removed each year.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm told that two other factors militate against the return
of straw to the soil. For the same reasons that we like straw
for building, it isn't particularly good as a soil builder. It
doesn't break down all that easily, and it doesn't have that
many valuable nutrients. A more severe impediment is that many
farmers believe that returning plant stalks to the soil can
increase the frequency of soil diseases affecting those plants.
Unless crop rotation is sufficiently diverse, tilling straw, or
other plant stalks back into the soil can reduce crop yields in
subsequent years. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I read that straw is still a waste product, and that in
California, storage of excess straw is a problem. Even though
finding good bales is hard, I believe that straw is still
treated as a waste product across much of the west. I would be
interested in learning more about the situation in the east, and
in other countries. <br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Derek</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Dec 20, 2013, at 8:37 PM, Jacob Deva Racusin wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">I think that Carol
makes a crucial point - straw is actually getting more
difficult to find here, and there are a lot of competing
industries both within ag and in landscaping. Heck,
there's a pretty big farm west of us that grows a straw
crop specifically for horse stables (big horse racing
country over there) - it's the primary crop. Straw may
be a secondary crop, but it is definitely not a waste
product - and if we are considering the goal that folks
in this thread have stated of dramatically increasing
straw construction by adoption into the mainstream by
prefab applications and other means, then we are talking
about a future in which there is a lot more straw being
grown for buildings (primary or secondary crop).
<br>
<br>
By removing all that carbon from the soil and not
tilling in to restore soil nutrients and tilth, we are
having a net-negative impact on soil health and ecology
- inherently unsustainable. If we till back in and/or
cover crop, we reduce net yield, requiring more farmland
or production somehow. There is already a growing
concern in this part of the world about the competition
for farmland between food and energy production (i.e.
corn-based ethanol); if we add a surge in straw
construction to that, coupled with reduction in yields
due to diminishing soil productivity, and throw in some
climate change-induced natural disasters...whoa, ok, not
trying to get too down here, I honestly don't think that
straw is in scarcity danger right now - far from it.
But I do believe that source is an issue we should be
taking very seriously, if we are planning for the long
haul - around here, the sources of our straw are not
stable for the long term (I'm not even sure how much
longer I can get long straws, with all the farms
switching over to chop-straw combines), and there is
certainly none of it going to waste. If we truly want
to scale up in production, we need to be able to ensure
availability of our raw materials, and I don't feel too
secure in that right now. Of course, this involves
major paradigm shift in industrial agriculture
production...good thing we're all such a bunch of
fired-up change-makers. Maybe we'll be using the
PAKSBAB-style bale press and go back to gathering field
grasses, old-school Nebraska-style, after the
revolution...<br>
<br>
So, are farms in CA/out west still burning straw? I
thought that was banned years ago...is there really such
a glut of straw out there that it's still considered
waste? Regionalism is fascinating...<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jacob<br>
<br>
<div>On 12/20/13, 8:01 PM, <a href="mailto:carolatkn@aol.com" target="_blank">
carolatkn@aol.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<font face="arial">
<div>Sorry John, but straw is ABSOLUTELY NOT a waste
product - its greatest value is as a soil improver
- I can't stress how important that is - even if
many "modern" farmers don't seem to agree these
days. Farm soils have lost so much organic matter
over the last 50 years that it is very a scary
situation indeed. Of course, locking up carbon in
a super insulated straw wall is the second best
thing - and it would be sustainable to use straw
for this wonderful purpose every third year or so
- in an ideal world!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>best wishes</div>
<div>Carol Atkinson</div>
<div><a href="http://www.strawcottage.co.uk/" target="_blank">www.strawcottage.co.uk</a>
</div>
<div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica">
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: John Swearingen <a href="mailto:jswearingen@skillful-means.com" target="_blank">
<jswearingen@skillful-means.com></a><br>
To: Global Straw Building Network <a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">
<GSBN@sustainablesources.com></a><br>
Sent: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 19:50<br>
Subject: Re: [GSBN] The EU wants 5% strawbuildings
by 2020 says the Economist..<br>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Jacob's points about supporting
local and sustainable business are well taken,
but these are choices that we can make, with
our pocketbooks, in order to bring about
better communities.
<div>
<div>That said, I think the bottom line is
that straw is a<i> waste product</i>.
Unlike wood, it's not grown for
construction, and it has limited use--for
erosion control (composting) or to spread
over muddy paddocks for livestock. Extra
straw, and there is a lot, would likely be
burned. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Following the very sound sustainability
principle of "highest and best use",
<b>any</b> use of bales for construction
involves taking garbage and putting it to
good use and that's worthy of support.
When you consider that bales sequester
carbon, that's an extra benefit. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John (Trash Talk) Swearingen</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 18, 2013
at 6:37 PM, Jacob Deva Racusin <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:buildnatural@googlemail.com" target="_blank">buildnatural@googlemail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Valentina,<br>
<br>
I appreciate your perspective. This is
a conversation that has come up a number
of times in our courses and
conversations with our colleagues -
namely, the roll of agribusiness in
providing feedstock for our
construction. I think 'greenwashing'
may be a bit strong, when I compare to
the claims of the concrete and foam
industries as being 'green'. That said,
the impacts must be considered, and the
benefits of using straw in regards to
deep ecological and social impact should
not be overstated if the source of straw
is not being considered. We have access
to straw that is grown from medium- and
small-scale farms, which come closer to
the higher potential of working with
this material. It is very analogous to
working with wood -the same framing
member can come from a local sawyer
practicing sustainable silviculture, or
from a genetically-engineered clear-cut
plantation pine shipped across the
world.<br>
<br>
>From data I've seen, even industrial
straw is a fraction of the embodied
carbon of other common forms of
insulation, so context is relevant when
evaluating materials for deep impact.
You make an especially good point about
the danger of introducing this material
to industrial scale, and losing more of
the benefits/exacerbating the
liabilities in favor of snapping the
technology into the mold of industrial
housing/building development. We would
do well as a community not to lose sight
of the importance of scale, and as you
mention the relevance of the social
benefits of working with straw. At the
same time, access to a much larger
market and making the technology
available to many more people is an
arguable net gain, even if there is a
sacrifice for environmental and social
impact in production - again, compared
to the alternatives. I think there is
room for both, and as long as we
continue to engage in the debate, I have
confidence that we'll continue to move
the ball further down the field.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jacob<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Jacob Deva Racusin <br>
Co-Owner<br>
New Frameworks Natural Design/Build<br>
<br>
Author, The Natural Building
Companion<br>
Chelsea Green Press, 2012<br>
<br>
<a value="+18027827783">(802)
782-7783</a><br>
<a href="mailto:jacob@newframeworks.com" target="_blank">jacob@newframeworks.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.newframeworks.com/" target="_blank">http://www.newframeworks.com</a></font></span>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On 12/18/13, 12:43 PM, valentina
maini wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Martin, John,
Caroline, and all
<div>as Herbert Gruber recently
suggested on Leonardo group, this
article maybe very well connected
with the EU funded
( eco-innovation) investigation on
@Modcell ....based in the UK and
with BathUniversity support </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I personally got in touch with
the founder of this panels in 2011
and met with professionals here in
spain that are collaborating in
this EU funded program of analysis
and implementation of this
"patent" strawbale panels....i've
seen fantastic software and
marketing tools they were
presenting at Eco event in London
2011</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From my point of view and with
very recent experiences on
professional development of
strawbale in Spain i think and see
this article as a call for action
to present the real value of
strawbale and strawbale
network..that goes, in my view,
very much beyond the "simple"
energy efficiency issue...</div>
<div>and i very important reminder
for all that straw is not at all a
really safe for the environment
product...since is a byproduct of
one of the most contaminated
human "fabric"...as industrial
agriculture ...as very well
reminds Luc Foissac in is great
book on strawbale...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>from my point of view...The
very big risk/reality at the
moment is that straw is used very
much as a "simple" greenwash.....</div>
<div> and even if i really
celebrate the greenwash for what
it means in terms of getting rid
of toxic materials...i think and
personally value much more the
social innovation related to
strawbale... the ability of people
and networks to create opportunity
and solutions.... </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>what is happening is just
"business as usual" with a more
eco-material... what the strawbale
network gave me me is much much
more than simple "strawbale
tech"... i learned.... thank to
you all.... the value and the
tools to innovate and collaborate
and manage uncertainty.... and
adapt and always look for the best
solution for people, planet...and
even profit... </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>and personally i'm really
convinced that the risk for
environment and quality (equality)
in our society is so big.....,
that is not enough anymore to
"change" material... and hope that
the strawbale network (that i
value for itself) can make a huge
step and show the world that
strawbalers are bringing much more
to community and economy that a
"simple" prefab panel for passive
house... a huge step to defend as
the real value the mission and
vision of all the pioneers in
strawbale .... at least this is
how i see you all ...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>hope my english is good
enough...and...my mind is getting
clear on this issue just in this
lasts months... so hope this
comments are of some interest for
you ;-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>best regards to you all,
valentina</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div><span><span>
<div><span>
<div><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Valentina
Maini</span><br>
<font color="#888888">italy-spain<br>
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<font face="'trebuchet ms', sans-serif"><span style="font-size:x-small"><font color="#666666">John Swearingen<br>
Skillful Means Design & Construction<br>
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<a href="tel:510.849.1800" value="+15108491800" target="_blank">510.849.1800</a> phone<br>
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<div>-- <br>
Jacob Deva Racusin <br>
Co-Owner<br>
New Frameworks Natural Design/Build<br>
<br>
Author, The Natural Building Companion<br>
Chelsea Green Press, 2012<br>
<br>
<a href="tel:%28802%29%20782-7783" value="+18027827783" target="_blank">(802) 782-7783</a><br>
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<div>-- <br>
Jacob Deva Racusin <br>
Co-Owner<br>
New Frameworks Natural Design/Build<br>
<br>
Author, The Natural Building Companion<br>
Chelsea Green Press, 2012<br>
<br>
<a href="tel:%28802%29%20782-7783" value="+18027827783" target="_blank">(802) 782-7783</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><font face="'trebuchet ms', sans-serif"><span style="font-size:x-small"><font color="#666666">John Swearingen<br>Skillful Means Design & Construction<br>
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