<div dir="ltr">Thanks again <span class="" style="background-image:initial;background-color:yellow"><span class="" style>Feile</span></span>,<div><br></div><div>I originally wrote you off the list but it seemed that these issues you bring up may also find a strong response on <span class="" style="background-image:initial;background-color:yellow"><span class="" style>GSBN</span></span>. I believe you may have assumed we were on the list anyway.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As as a civil engineer conducting mostly structural work, thermal qualities are not my forte. Although Massey Burke a designer/builder I have been working with has recently put a cob building through California's somewhat stringent Title 24 energy requirements matrix and it luckily did not come out with a big fat X. In fact, California has a Heavy Mass Wall option in our matrix. Massey knows much more about the process than I do so I've copied here here to continue the conversation.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>~Anthony</div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Anthony <span class="" style>Dente</span>, PE, <span class="" style>LEED</span> AP</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
Kevin Donahue Structural Engineers</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Berkeley, CA</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><a href="tel:814.502.6001" value="+18145026001" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">814.502.6001</a></div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:02 AM, <span class="" style="background-image:initial;background-color:yellow"><span class="" style>Feile</span></span> at Mud and Wood <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:feile@mudandwood.com" target="_blank"><span class="" style="background-image:initial;background-color:yellow"><span class="" style>feile</span></span>@<span class="" style="background-image:initial;background-color:yellow"><span class="" style>mudandwood</span></span>.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div><font face="Arial">Hello again Anthony,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Cheers re: the website.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Regarding building regulation compliance, we have
advantages and disadvantages in Ireland. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">We don't have to worry about seismic loading at
all. As for issues regarding structural documentation for cob buildings,
while we have no written codes, we have 1000s of centuries old cob buildings
dotted around the country which are living proof that this method of
construction is durable and structurally sound. However, sometimes you get a
building control officer (or a mortgage provider) who wants the agrement cert or
the accredited laboratory certificate for the material - which is obviously
impossible and is something I'm trying to challenge at the moment.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">I'm sure our system is similar to a lot of
countries, where the building regulation itself is only two or three sentences
long, but the accompanying technical guidance document is a detailed
prescription for how to achieve that regulation. If you follow the guidance word
for word, you are deemed to have met the regulation. If you take a different
path, the onus is on you to prove that you are meeting the regulation and if you
have a close-minded building control officer or mortgage lender, that can be
extremely difficult. It puts clients off, as it obviously takes more time and
money to convince unyielding officials of methods and materials which do not
neatly fit inside the box and there is no guarantee of a positive
outcome.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">There are ways around some of the challenges, e.g.
fire - materials in certain locations should have an organic content of 1% or
less. Cob has approx. 15%. But there have been enough fires in cob
buildings to prove that cob walls are fire-resistant. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">My biggest bug bear is the energy efficiency
regulations - all about reducing carbon footprints - but which completely ignore
embodied energy. So you can build the most energy efficient house on the planet
and get an A1 rating, but it is built out of every toxic, carbon-loaded material
going. I know Jim Carfrae (is he on this list?) has done work comparing the
carbon footprint of a "regular" passivehaus house compared with a straw-bale
passivehaus house and found that both achieve the same energy efficiency but
that the embodied energy of the regular passivehaus was equivalent to 40% of the
operational energy over 60 years (I think), while the embodied energy of the
straw bale house was only equivalent to 5%.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">There is a lot of anecdotal evidence about the
warmth of cob buildings compared to their calculated u-value expectation.
U-values are an inadequate way to measure the thermal properties of monlithic
materials with high thermal mass coupled with high thermal inertia. The
regulations take no account of humidity balancing and as RH has a bigger
infleunce on the perception of comfort than air temperature, it could be argued
that materials which promote even, optimum RH levels can provide thermal comfort
at lower temperatures. We have a huge problem with the performance gap in
Ireland - the actual measured performance of the built building compared to its
calculated performance. The very few tests which have been carrried out on
(historic) cob buildings in Scotland have shown that they perform up to 150%
(and more) better than expected. Whereas tests on conventionally built buildings
in Ireland and the UK have provided results 150% and even 200% worse than
expected.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Our energy efficiency regulations now include
software calculations in the actual regulation itself (not in the technical
guidance document). A small area of wall is allowed to fall outside the current
u-value of 0.21 W/m2K, as low as 0.6 W/m2K. Cob walls can achieve
this. But what do you do with the rest of the wall area? I contend that cob
walls need nothing like the level of insulation that the calculations state. I
believe that it is not sustainable to slap on a load of unnecessary
insulation material just to tick the box in a computer equation which
cannot adequately deal with the material involved. Besides, the wall
construction ends up getting so deep, that it stops being a sensible way to
build. Also some research has been carried out in France which showed that the
addition of insulation to a rammed earth wall ended up increasing the
overall moisture content of the wall, thereby decreasing the thermal performance
of the rammed earth. There may been a net gain in overall thermal performance,
but unfortunately, this wasn't measured - they were just concerned with the
moisture levels in the earth construction. Needless to say, increased moisture
levels also brought the wall closer to its danger point from a structural
collapse point of view.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">In England and Scotland, the approach is to
super-insulate other parts of the building that can be super-insulated and to
leave the cob walls as traditional cob walls. We took that approach with our own
house here (which was built before the regulations got tighter- but we still
super-insulated a lot of the envelope). Nowadays the software throws up a big
fat X beside any cob walls. Some building control officers may
accept that the whole house performance is meeting the requirements. But some
may not and if there is an element that clearly does not comply, this is their
reason to refuse it.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">On this note, I would love to be pointed towards
any studies on the following:</font></div>
<ul>
<li><font face="Arial">Humidity buffering and balancing properties of
earth, its effect on internal relative humidity and perception of thermal
comfort.</font></li>
<li><font face="Arial">measured thermal performance of contemporary
earth-constructed homes</font></li>
<li><font face="Arial">other methods for measuring the thermal properties
of materials - any kind of equation, etc, which could be added to u-values to
modify them to take account of what is really happening in the real world
(with time lag, humidity regulations, etc).</font></li>
<li><font face="Arial">the ability of earth to bind toxins.</font></li>
<li><font face="Arial">I'm aware of the NZ earth-building codes and the
UK Code of Practice for Rammed Earth. Please let me know what else is out
there.</font></li></ul>
<div><font face="Arial">I think the points about humidity-buffering and
toxin-binding are particularly exciting. If the fabric of the building itself
can remove excess moisture and toxins from the internal atmosphere, then there
could be potential for reducing ventilation requirements. Even controlled
ventilation equates with either heat loss or energy needed for heat
recovery. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">As for the reinforcement properties of straw, the
last email I posted refers to testing done in Bath and Plymouth Universities and
Cra-terre which might be able to help.</font></div><div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Regards</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=""><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">F<span><span>é</span></span>ile
Butler</span></b></p>
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<a href="tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2071%20930%200488" value="+353719300488" target="_blank">+353 (0) 71 930 0488</a><span>
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<p class=""><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><span></span><u></u><strong>M: +353 (0) 86 806
8382</strong><u></u></span><u></u></span></p>
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: </strong><strong></strong></span><span lang="EN-IE"><a><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt" lang="EN-US"><strong><font color="#0066cc" size="1">feile@mudandwood.com</font></strong></span></a></span></font><u></u></span><u></u></span><u></u></span></p>
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<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
</div><blockquote style="border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial;background-image:initial;background-color:rgb(228,228,228)"><b>From:</b>
<a title="dente.a@gmail.com" href="mailto:dente.a@gmail.com" target="_blank">Anthony Dente</a>
</div>
<div style="font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="feile@mudandwood.com" href="mailto:feile@mudandwood.com" target="_blank">Feile at Mud and Wood</a> </div>
<div style="font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 27, 2013 10:05
PM</div>
<div style="font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [GSBN] Mechanized Cob
Workshop: Using an excavator to mix and applycob</div><div><div>
<div><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi <span>Feile</span>,
<div><br></div>
<div>Nice website. It looks like you are doing some great things over in
Ireland. Your statement "<font face="Arial">We have a big emphasis on
building regulation compliance" intrigued me. I'm not well versed in
Ireland building codes and my limited knowledge of the region has me believing
your seismic loads are small but I am very interested in hearing about how you
deal with wind loading when communicating with your building
department.</font></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial"><br></span></div>
<div><font face="Arial">I'm a professional engineer
in California and I've been working on the design of of number of
cob structures in our highly seismic region recently. My
largest struggles are just a lack
of structural documentation. As well as the terminology battle
of weather straw can even be considered as "reinforcement" in our
country.</font></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial"><br></span></div>
<div><font face="Arial">I just wanted to write to see if you had anything
interesting to share on that matter. I am happy to share our reports as
well after we reach a conclusion with our building departments if
that would possibly help with any of your projects.</font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Thanks and take care,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">~Anthony</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Anthony Dente, PE,
LEED AP</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Kevin Donahue
Structural Engineers</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Berkeley, CA</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><a href="tel:814.502.6001" value="+18145026001" target="_blank">814.502.6001</a></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:38 AM, <span>Feile</span> at
Mud and Wood <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:feile@mudandwood.com" target="_blank"><span>feile</span>@<span>mudandwood</span>.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Hi Mischa</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best of luck with the cob course.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Just to say we have been running 8-day courses for the
past 2 years in Ireland teaching digger mixing cob and using forms to
speed up the process. The course is very much aimed at building larger cob
structures as family homes, etc. We have a big emphasis on building
regulation compliance (which can present its own challenges!). You can click
here for a link to the <a href="http://www.mudandwood.com/news-and-articles.html#courses" target="_blank">2012 course</a> and <a href="http://www.mudandwood.com/news-and-articles.html#eightday" target="_blank">2013 course</a>.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">We always start with foot-mixing for a day as it is an
invaluable introduction to getting to know the material. It also always
blows our students minds how quickly the process goes once you move from
foot- to digger-mixing. It really makes them appreciate the value of using
the digger.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Hope you get plenty of people signing up. And if you
know anyone who like to learn about it on this side of the pond, put them in
touch with us!</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kind Regards</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">F<span><span>é</span></span>ile
Butler</span></b></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span><strong><font size="1" face="Arial">MRIAI B.Arch Dip. Arch Conservation
Grade III</font></strong></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"></span><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,0);font-size:10pt"><font size="4" face="Courier New">Mud and Wood</font></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,0);font-size:10pt"></span></b><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><font size="1">Grange
Beg, Skreen, </font></span></b><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><font size="1">Co.
Sligo, Ireland</font></span></b></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><span></span></span></b></p>
<p><span><u></u><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><strong></strong></span><u></u></span></p>
<p><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><strong></strong></span><u></u></span></p>
<p><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><strong></strong></span><u></u></span></p>
<p><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><strong>T: <a href="tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2071%20930%200488" value="+353719300488" target="_blank">+353 (0) 71 930 0488</a><span>
</span></strong></span><u></u></span></p>
<p><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><span></span><u></u><strong>M:
<a href="tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2086%20806%208382" value="+353868068382" target="_blank">+353 (0) 86 806 8382</a></strong><u></u></span><u></u></span></p>
<p><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,0);font-size:10pt"><u></u><font color="#000000"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><strong>E :
</strong><strong></strong></span><span lang="EN-IE"><a><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt" lang="EN-US"><strong><font color="#0066cc" size="1">feile@mudandwood.com</font></strong></span></a></span></font><u></u></span><u></u></span><u></u></span></p>
<p><span><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><u></u><strong><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,0);font-size:10pt"><u></u><span lang="EN-IE"></span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:8pt"><font color="#000000">W:<font size="1"> </font><a href="http://www.mudandwood.com" target="_blank"><font color="#0066cc" size="1">www.mudandwood.com</font></a></font></span><u></u></span><u></u></span></strong><u></u></span><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px">
<div style="font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(228,228,228);font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial"><b>From:</b>
<a title="misha.rauchwerger@gmail.com" href="mailto:misha.rauchwerger@gmail.com" target="_blank">Misha
Rauchwerger</a> </div>
<div style="font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="GSBN@sustainablesources.com" href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">Global Straw
Building Network</a> </div>
<div style="font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 26, 2013
7:05 AM</div>
<div style="font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial"><b>Subject:</b> [GSBN] Mechanized Cob
Workshop: Using an excavator to mix and applycob</div>
<div><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi Everyone,<br><br></div>I thought there may be folks out there on
this list serve either interested in taking this possibly one-of-a-kind
cob workshop, or you may have networks, email lists, etc. to get the word
out to interested parties. I would very much appreciate the
assistance. I think it may be a different crowd than is typically
drawn to cob workshops, so appealing to the professional side of natural
building seems like it may have a better chance of reaching interested
parties.<br><br></div>Thanks,<br></div>Misha
Rauchwerger<br></div>Builtinbliss.com<br><br></div>
<p></p>
<hr>
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<p></p></blockquote></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>GSBN
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a><br><a href="http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN" target="_blank">http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>