<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div><div>Good afternoon John, Sven and All,</div><div><br></div><div>I like the concept of a thin drainage plane behind a rain screen which this product will provide </div><div>HOWEVER secudrain is designed for horizontal loading where the product resists crushing forces yet maintains in plane drainage e.g. Interlayers of roads or landfills.</div><div>The apparent confusion is the pull apart strength (tensile strength) along and across the sheet, not the tear off or SHEAR effect of vertical loads where the rain screen plaster coats hang onto the outer skin of the cloth - as John and found this stuff will tear apart !</div><div><br></div><div>So</div><div><br></div><div>My suggestion is to pin this over the (structural) scratch coat that is direct plastered onto the straw, then overlay this with cintoflex D and lay up the two or three coat lime plaster rain screen and finish this off with a lime wash</div><div>The rain screen will be supported by the cintoflex (refer Bruce Kings book for loadings and fixing tests) along the soffit line, and will need additional fastening along the bottom plate above the J flashing. The cintoflex will probably need some "anti billowing" fixings of say roberto pins into the bales at up to 400 centers across the face of the wall</div><div><br></div><div>ian</div><div><br></div><div><!--[if !mso]>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#595959;mso-themecolor:
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<b>Adobe South</b><br>
<b>A:</b> 5 Lancewood Rise, Onerahi, Whangarei<br>
<b>P:</b> 09 436 4040 <b>M:</b>
027 490 2324<br>
<b>E:</b> ian@adobesouth.co.nz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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none;mso-border-insidev:none"><tbody></tbody></table><!--EndFragment--></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> John Swearingen <<a href="mailto:jswearingen@skillful-means.com">jswearingen@skillful-means.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span> Global Straw Building Network <<a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:23 AM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Global Straw Building Network <<a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [GSBN] Drainage within a plaster system<br></div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">Sven...are you confusing "machine direction"? Doesn't it refer to tension in the plane of the material. The sandwich materials like this that I've seen can all be pulled apart by hand (we do it regularly), and that doesn't seem strong enough for a major seismic event...<div><br><div>John "Cross Machine" Swearingen<br><div><div><img src="http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/infrastructure/structures/11026/images/fig007.gif" alt="Inline image 1"></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Sarah Johnston <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sarahjohnston@ihug.co.nz" target="_blank">sarahjohnston@ihug.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Thank you all for your thoughts...<div><br></div><div> The plaster keys into the geotextile and the geotextile is well bonded to the mat. The specs say that the tensile strength (Machine Direction) is 7.5 KN/M for the mat with the geotextile bonded to both sides. I do not know what this number equates to in potential thickness of plaster hanging on it.... Any thoughts anyone??</div><div><br></div><div>The secuDrain <a href="http://www.cirtex.co.nz/files/file/375/Std+Secudrain+131+C+WD+401+131+C%2C+Rev+5_en.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cirtex.co.nz/files/file/375/Std+Secudrain+131+C+WD+401+131+C%2C+Rev+5_en.pdf</a> does seem like it should be better and the specs suggest the tensile strength is twice as good as the duraflow. The reason I have not been considering the secudrain over the duraflow is that the samples I have do not seem to reflect the data on the website. The duraflow was far more difficult to pull apart.. I guess it all comes back to trying them both on a wall, then test them.</div><div><br></div><div>If we have living green walls like John suggests... Would that make us 'greenies'?</div><div><br></div><div>Sven</div><div class="im"><div><br></div><div><div><div>On 11/07/2013, at 2:47 AM, John Swearingen wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">The drainage mat is very thin, and I'm not understanding how you plan to "embed" the mat to the base coat, and then bond the exterior plaster to the geotextile, both securely enough to keep the plaster layer from falling off in a good shake? BTW, I would consider using their "SecuDrain" rather than Duraflow especially if you can get it with geotextile on one side only.<br>
<div><br></div><div>Have you thought of wrapping the building in something like DuraGreen? Never mind the plaster, grow plants.</div><div><br></div><div>John <br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br> <br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:33 AM, Sarah Johnston <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sarahjohnston@ihug.co.nz" target="_blank">sarahjohnston@ihug.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
My intention would be to apply a 30mm clay/sand/straw plaster with this product embedded into/ onto the top of the plaster. Or 20mm of lime/cement/ sand/ fibre plaster in place of the clay. This would be the typical structural plaster and the thin plaster over the drainage mat would be to visually hide the mat and stop the wind from driving rain through the mat, thus adding to the typical plaster rather than weakening the system.<br>
<br> I am hoping this product would be robust enough to be able to hang the thin plaster on it with no wires creating any potential weakness in the weather tightness of the plaster system. Due to the legal climate in NZ, the engineering is achieved by means other than the plaster system, cross bracing etc. While the plaster is not considered to be structural, the system will be exposed to seismic activity due to the fact that Christchurch is still experiencing pretty good shakes on a regular basis. (There have actually been over 11,000 shakes of 2.0 or more since the 'big one' three years ago)! Do these engineering numbers support my hope???<br>
<br> <a href="http://www.cirtex.co.nz/files/file/663/Duraflow+GNG+700+Series+Data+Sheet.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cirtex.co.nz/files/<u></u>file/663/Duraflow+GNG+700+<u></u>Series+Data+Sheet.pdf</a><br> <br> As this drainage mat is in addition to a fairly typical plaster system I am hoping the small amount of moisture which could potentially find its way through the outer plaster, across the drainage gap and into the typical plaster system would not be enough to become any issue with no typar type product. I just need to find out how to get a sample big enough to test....<br>
<br> I look forward to reading through more of your "ranting and raving on this topic," John. and any other input would be great!<br> <br> Sven Johnston<br> Sol Design Ltd<br> <a href="http://www.soldesign.co.nz" target="_blank">www.soldesign.co.nz</a><div><div><br> <br><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><div><span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:12px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:12px;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div><br></div><br></span></div></span><br> </div><br></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
GSBN mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a><br><a href="http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN" target="_blank">http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><font face="'trebuchet ms', sans-serif"><span style="font-size:x-small"><font color="#666666">John Swearingen<br>Skillful Means Design & Construction<br>
2550 9th Street Suite 209A<br>Berkeley, CA 94710<br>510.849.1800 phone<br>510.849.1900 fax<br><br>Web Site: <a href="http://www.skillful-means.com" target="_blank">http://www.skillful-means.com</a><br>Blog: <a href="https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com" target="_blank">https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com</a></font></span></font></div>
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