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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mark and John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I would have thought that a good way of looking at detailing is – if it works – you don’t have to fix it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rain driven rain is and will always be a problem – and it seems that the strawbale community has found (?) a solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I like being in a monk’s cell !<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bohdan ( not a monk)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> GSBN-bounces@sustainablesources.com [mailto:GSBN-bounces@sustainablesources.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Swearingen<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 20 November 2012 12:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> nature boy; Global Straw Building Network<br><b>Cc:</b> Patrick Donaldson<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [GSBN] Window Detailing Question<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ah, finally you are coming around to moving the windows inward, though I would challenge your reasoning. There are many good reasons to place the windows in mid-wall, but I don't think preventing thermal gaps is one of them; the difference is likely to be minor compared to other issues. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Here are a few:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Shading: by far the most significant thermal effect of window placement is the degree of shading provided, especially on E & W orientations.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Rain cover: The technical problem with bale walls is that windows are placed in a wall that has no sheet membrane to lap over the windows. This problem exists wherever the window is located, but when water sheeting down the wall has to make a 90 degree turn, from vertical to horizontal, there are more opportunities to intercept and disperse water before it gets past the window. (Bob Theis likes the windows pasted to the outside in order to avoid the 3D waterproofing issue, I think it's foolish to think that it's really any easier).<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Sill detailing: Wider sills provide better dispersion of rain striking the window location. (However, wind-driven rain can accumulate)..<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>They look awesome: show off how thick your walls really are.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>They look friendly: shallower sills on the interior are generally more pleasing and less like a monk's cell or dungeon (take your pick).<o:p></o:p></li></ol><div><p class=MsoNormal>My thought....<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>John<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:25 PM, nature boy <<a href="mailto:moontrout@yahoo.com" target="_blank">moontrout@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi Folks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Mark Lakeman at communitecture and City Repair in Portland here. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We have a new bale project coming in and we're thinking in terms of some <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>passive haus - kinda design concerns as well. Can anyone please comment <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>on the question below, please?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>- So, we're thinking of bringing the windows of this building inboard to the middle of <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>the thickness of the wall, as opposed to how we normally set them at the exterior edge <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>of the wall. The idea is that we will provide more thermal resistance through the wall at <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>the jamb, head, and sill in order to transfer through more fiber rather than just being <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>able to nip diagonally through the wall around the window frames.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Is it worth doing this in consideration of potentially increased water infiltration issues?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please advise!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks always, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:14.0pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:maroon'>Mark Lakeman</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#00007F'><br></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:black'>Co-Founder </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> Principal & Design Lead </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'><br></span><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0000BF'>The City Repair Project </span></b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0000BF'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'> </span><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'>communitecture, inc.</span></b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'><br></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0000BF'>Portland, Oregon </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'> </span><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'>Architecture & Planning</span></i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'><br></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0000BF'><a href="tel:503-381-5885" target="_blank">503-381-5885</a> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'><a href="tel:503-230-1293" target="_blank">503-230-1293</a></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'><br></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:#0000BF'><a href="http://www.cityrepair.org" target="_blank">www.cityrepair.org</a> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#0000BF'><a href="http://www.communitecture.net" target="_blank">www.communitecture.net</a></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#00007F'><br></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Chris Magwood <<a href="mailto:chris@endeavourcentre.org" target="_blank">chris@endeavourcentre.org</a>><br><b>To:</b> Global Straw Building Network <<a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:13 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> [GSBN] Can bale buildings be air tight?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Hi all!<br><br>Maybe the question of whether or not a bale building can be built air tight hasn't been keeping you all awake at night, but it's caused Jen and I some long evenings of thought and lots of detail drawings on our plans! Maybe that's just what keeps northerners warm at night...<br><br>We've been honing in on good results over the past couple of years, and this year we finally nailed it (but didn't put a nail through it... that would have been counter-productive). We just did a blower door test on our most recent project and ended up with a result of 0.99 ACH50. That's approaching the PassiveHaus goal of 0.6, and we realized after the test that we hadn't covered up the open sump pit in the basement, so we may actually get to PH levels with the final test.<br><br>The building has a mix of site-built, clay plastered walls and prefabricated, lime/cement plastered walls. We've long used a system that uses a flexible air barrier (house-wrap type membrane) at the edges of the walls where the plaster will meet ceiling, floor and intersecting walls. The membrane wraps down behind the plaster by 3-4 inches. What was interesting with this building was to find that in some areas that detail worked very well, and in others it didn't help much at all.<br><br>What this tells us is that unprotected plastered edges leak... a lot! Our first blower test helped us discover that some of these seams were leaky. One leaky wall accounted for a shocking 74 square inches of leakage! By eye, it just looked like the usual plaster shrinkage around the edge of the wall, maybe 1/8 inch. But multiply that around an entire home and it's no wonder that many bale buildings under perform in blower door tests. You can see photos of these areas on our project blog at <a href="http://endeavourcentre.org/2012/11/blower-door-test-1/" target="_blank">http://endeavourcentre.org/2012/11/blower-door-test-1/</a><br><br>What we don't know is why some areas stayed tight and others didn't. Our best guess is that it can come down to quality of work. How long was the barrier tail left? How well was the mesh installed over it? How vigorously was the plaster pushed into the mesh? The plaster pulling away at the edge as it shrinks also seems to cause some slight bending of the skin inward, taking it away from the barrier.<br><br>One good take-away from this project is about the beauty of clay plasters. The leaky edges of the clay plastered walls were relatively easy to address... moisten the edges a bit and squeeze in more clay mix. Everything bonds together and the seams went from very leaky to completely tight!<br><br>Now, if anybody happens to ask if them there bale houses can be air tight, it's possible to answer yes.<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Chris<br><br>-- Chris Magwood<br>Director, Endeavour Centre<br><a href="http://www.endeavourcentre.org/" target="_blank">www.endeavourcentre.org</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>GSBN mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a><br><a href="http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN" target="_blank">http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>GSBN mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a><br><a href="http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN" target="_blank">http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#666666'>John Swearingen<br>Skillful Means Design & Construction<br>2550 9th Street Suite 209A<br>Berkeley, CA 94710<br>510.849.1800 phone<br>510.849.1900 fax<br><br>Web Site: <a href="http://www.skillful-means.com" target="_blank">http://www.skillful-means.com</a><br>Blog: <a href="https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com" target="_blank">https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>