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Thanks, Martin---that is very helpful for letting us know where we
stand, compliance-wise. <br>
<br>
The estimate as to where we stand reality-wise is also appreciated. I
could not, however find "Type V-A" or "Type V, 1hr" in my Rosetta
Stone---might you be able to equate it with one of the rows in that
table?<br>
<br>
Do you have any specs on your piercing CO2 nozzle device? For this
project it might make sense to have one on hand as part of the fire
safety system.<br>
<br>
<br>
Hats off, Derek...I will incorporate these straw-bale specific
considerations in the overall fire safety plan. <br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
<br>
Art<br>
<br>
On 3/15/12 3:12 PM, Derek Roff wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:704D5CAB-BEFF-4051-AC59-4C547EDEE06D@unm.edu"
type="cite">While it isn't a direct answer to your questions, Art and
Tom, there are three factors that make strawbale buildings a little
different than most structures, in the case of fire. 1) While
plastered strawbale walls are quite fire resistant, they comprise a
super-insultated envelope that, in the case of a significant fire
inside the building, can result in much higher internal temperatures
than would occur in a similar fire within a less-well insulated and
less robust building, such as a stick-framed or steel-framed residence.
2) Due to the insulative properties, and the dense, thick, low-oxygen
interior of the walls, smoldering hot spots can be created inside a
strawbale wall exposed to a significant fire. These hot spots can last
for a long time after the initial fire is extinguished. They may be
hard to locate, and if not dealt with, could possibly be the source for
ignition of subsequent fires. 3) Few firefighters have any experience
with putting out a fire in a strawbale building. This may lead to
using techniques which are less effective for strawbale structures,
unnecessary destruction of the walls, the possibility of turning the
fire-resistant plastered walls into an additional fuel source, by
breaching the walls and breaking them up, scattering and decompressing
the straw bales.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A few years ago, Martin was working with a person very
experienced in fire fighting techniques and technology. This led,
among other things, to a prototype device that could be carried by
firefighters, which used a piercing nozzle to make small holes in the
plaster, and then inject liquid carbon dioxide into the wall at
strategic locations to suppress fire and extinguish hot spots within
strawbale walls. Perhaps Martin can update us on what advances he is
aware of, relating to firefighting in SB structures. <br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Derelict</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Derek Roff</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:derek@unm.edu">derek@unm.edu</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>On Mar 15, 2012, at 2:50 PM, Oasis Design wrote:</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><font face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">Hi Art,<br>
<br>
In the recently proposed SB code, I use the following language:<br>
<br>
<b>2407.4 Type of construction. </b>Buildings or portions thereof
utilizing strawbale walls in accordance with this chapter shall be
classified as Type V-B construction.<b> </b>Strawbale walls
constructed
in compliance with Section 2407.1.1 or 2407.1.2 shall be permitted
wherever combustible walls of the same fire-resistance are allowed by
Chapter 6 of the <i>International Buildlng Code</i>. Strawbale walls
with any finish allowed by this chapter shall be permitted wherever
non-rated combustible walls are allowed by the <i>International
Building Code</i>. <br>
<br>
Sections 2407.1.1 and .2 refer to tested assemblies that have
fire-resistance ratings of 1-hour and 2-hour. There currently is no
stated type of construction for strawbale in any code** that I’m aware
of. What I’m proposing, and what I believe any building official would
say until a code says otherwise, is that SB construction is Type V-B
(i.e., Type V, unrated).<br>
<br>
**However, in California, the current HS18944 Guidelines for Straw-Bale
Structures says “(a) Straw-bale walls, when covered with plaster,
drywall, or stucco, shall be deemed to have the equivalent fire
resistive rating as wood-frame construction with the same wall-finishing</span></font><font
size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></font><font
face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">system.”<br>
<br>
Wood frame constructino covered with those materials (depending on
specifications) is Type V-A (i.e., Type V, 1hr.). What HS18944 says is
not the same as saying strawbale is Type V-A , but if you accept what
it does say, it’s not a big leap to get there.<br>
<br>
The safe thing for your purposes is to say strawbale construction is
Type V-B. But I believe plastered strawbale walls and buildings
actually perform more than well enough to be considered Type V-A. In
the long run that’s where I think it will land, but I’m taking it
incrementally, calling it unrated for now except for the assemblies
that were tested. For the vast majority of strawbale applications,
there is no need for a type of construction that is 1-hour. If needed
a case could be made for a specific project and jurisdiction.<br>
<br>
I hope this helps.<br>
<br>
Martin</span></font></blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:704D5CAB-BEFF-4051-AC59-4C547EDEE06D@unm.edu"
type="cite">
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Martin, <br>
<br>
I'm working on the hydrant water supply as part of the integrated
design for a project with at least two straw bale buildings. The
required hydrant flow in this jurisdiction is determined by the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.isomitigation.com/downloads/ppc3001.pdf">Insurance
Service Office procedure for needed fire flow</a>.<br>
<br>
Can anyone help me figure out the Construction Class number for earth
plastered straw bale for purposes of this calculation?<br>
<br>
Here's a table from the document linked above that is sort of a Rosetta
Stone for translating amongst the various standards that you all might
be familiar with:<br>
<br>
<span><Picture 23.png></span><br>
This calculation is non-critical; we can get it to work with ISO class
1 (the worst) but I feel like we'd have more credibility if we had an
idea what actual class the building fit in...<br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
<br>
Art<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/15/12 1:24 PM, martin hammer wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:CB879E08.12361%25mfhammer@pacbell.net"
type="cite">
<title>Re: [GSBN] Strawbale Classroom in Cork Ireland (Fire
Resistance) (+SB code)</title>
<font face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Tom -<br>
<br>
First a note re: the second EBNet link Derek listed. This is the
repository page for all supporting documentation for the proposed
Strawbale Construction chapter of the International Building Code. It
includes the 2006 ASTM fire tests reports and the fire test video. It
also includes the other documents that support the proposed SB code, as
well as the proposed chapter and appendix as published by ICC on March
13. (note, ICC did not include a few final revisions I requested, for
example potentially allowing baled materials other than the 5 cereal
straws. But I will pursue including them in the longer review process.)<br>
<br>
In addition to the excellent 2006 fire tests conducted by D. Eisenberg,
B. King, and B. Obregon of this list, there is the excellent 2004
German fire test by FASBA and Dirk Scharmer (of this list). Here is a
summary of this test by Dietmar Lorenz (of Dan Smith’s office) from the
Fall 2006 Last Straw:<br>
<br>
“A major step toward Code recognition was accomplished in February 2006
with the General Approval (“Allgemeine bauaufsichtliche Zulassung” or
AbZ) of “Construction Straw Bales” as insulating infill within certain
wall assemblies. As part of the application the Fachverband
Strohballenbau had to show compliance with the following criteria:<br>
<br>
1. Flammability:<br>
In a standardized test straw passed as “Normalentflammbar B2”, i.e. it
is not considered an easily flammable material, but of normal or
regular risk regarding combustion and flame spread.<br>
<br>
2. Fire Resistance:<br>
An unplastered 18" wide bale wall was tested to achieve 30-minute fire
resistance (F-30), and 90-minute fire resistance (F-90) with 3 cm of
earth plaster on each side. A minimum of F-30 is required, except in
single-family residences with at least 5m of separation from adjacent
structures. Fire resistance is technically not part of the AbZ, but
included as a general prerequisite.”<br>
<br>
You can go to <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.fasba.de/">www.fasba.de</a>
(click on English) and you can find a link
to the fire test (in German) and see a poster on SB Fire Resistance
that gives a good summary.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/15/12 10:33 AM, "Derek Roff" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="x-msg://138/derek@unm.edu">derek@unm.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Seeing
the
videos of fire tests may be useful in convincing the council, in
appealing to the "seeing is believing" tendency of our brains.
Catherine Wanek documented the New Mexico fire test in the 90's, and
could probably send you a copy of the video. Bruce King has a
10-minute video on his website of the fire test done a few years ago in
Texas. <br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ecobuildnetwork.org/resources/straw-bale-fire-test-video">http://www.ecobuildnetwork.org/resources/straw-bale-fire-test-video</a><br>
<br>
There are many other useful documents on Bruce's site, including PDFs
of the ASTM testing reports for the one-hour and two-hour fire tests.
Scroll down to Fire Resistance on this page:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ecobuildnetwork.org/strawbale-construction-code-supporting-documentation">http://www.ecobuildnetwork.org/strawbale-construction-code-supporting-documentation</a><br>
<br>
Good luck,<br>
Derelict<br>
<br>
Derek Roff<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="x-msg://138/derek@unm.edu">derek@unm.edu</a><br>
<br>
On Mar 13, 2012, at 4:03 AM, Tom Woolley wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Dear
friends<br>
<br>
here is the old chestnut about strawbale and fire!<br>
I would be most grateful if anyone willing to help with this could
email Alan Wiseman directly<br>
I am sure that Alan is aware that properly plastered strawbale walls
are not a fire risk, <br>
however he needs some official looking documents to give to his local
authority to convince them to issue a fire certificate<br>
<br>
The situation in Ireland is different from the UK ...<br>
we were able to convince building control in Northern Ireland that we
complied with one of the US Building Codes and that was sufficient to
get approval!<br>
Irish Regs<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/">http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/</a><br>
<br>
many thanks to anyone who can assist<br>
<br>
Tom Woolley<br>
<br>
Begin forwarded message:<br>
<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote><font size="4"><font
face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><b>From:
</b>alan wiseman <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="x-msg://138/wisemandesigns@gmail.com">wisemandesigns@gmail.com</a></span></font></font><font
face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">><br>
</span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><b>Date:
</b>13
March 2012 09:46:47 GMT<br>
<b>To: </b><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="x-msg://138/tom.woolley@btconnect.com">tom.woolley@btconnect.com</a></span></font><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">><br>
</span><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><b>Subject:
Strawbale
Classroom<br>
</b></span></font></font><font face="Arial"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
<br>
</span></font><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font
face="Lucida Grande">Dear Tom,<br>
</font><font face="Arial"> <br>
</font><font face="Lucida Grande">I have received planning
permission for a strawbale classroom .This is located in a built up
area, next to a large block creche on one side and 2m away from a
dwelling on the other side, a couples of miles from Cork city. But now
comes the awkward part. As it is a commercial building we need to get a
Fire Certificate This will be difficult as there is no precedent here
in Ireland for this (there are plenty of structures, mainly dwellings,
as you are aware, but none commercial that needed a Fire Safety
Certificate).<br>
<br>
I am aware of commercial structures in the UK that have been built
with strawbales.I would like to find out how they managed to persuade
the fire department. I have test results from North America but
precedents in Europe, particularly in the UK would better strengthen
our case. I am hoping you might have some insight or indeed contact on
this. Any help is greatly appreciated.<br>
</font><font face="Arial"> <br>
</font><font face="Lucida Grande"><br>
</font><font face="Arial"> </font><font
face="Lucida Grande">Thanking
you.<br>
</font><font face="Arial"> <br>
</font><font face="Lucida Grande">Kind regards,<br>
</font><font face="Arial"> <br>
</font><font face="Lucida Grande"><br>
</font><font face="Arial"> </font><font
face="Lucida Grande">Alan.</font><font face="Arial"> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span><font face="Arial"><font size="5"><span
style="font-size: 14.5pt;"><br>
</span></font><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <br>
</span><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 14.5pt;"><br>
</span></font><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <br>
13 Amberley Lawn<br>
<br>
Grange<br>
<br>
Cork<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tel: 021 489 99 79<br>
<br>
Mob: 086 877 6564<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.wisemandesigns.net/">www.wisemandesigns.net</a> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.wisemandesigns.net/">http://www.wisemandesigns.net/</a>>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></blockquote>
<font face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
<br>
</span><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Tom
Woolley<br>
<br>
Rachel Bevan Architects<br>
80 Church Road<br>
Crossgar<br>
Downpatrick<br>
BT30 9HR<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="x-msg://138/tom.woolley@btconnect.com">tom.woolley@btconnect.com</a><br>
028 44 830988<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.bevanarchitects.com/">www.bevanarchitects.com</a> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.bevanarchitects.com/">http://www.bevanarchitects.com/</a>>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></font></blockquote>
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