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Moisture content is another factor: <br>
<ul>
<li>Natural building-style earthen floors are generally separated
from the rest of the soil by some sort of capillary gap, and are so dry
it's hard to imagine even ascaris --the design reference indestructible
parasite-- finding them a hospitable environment.</li>
<li>Every dirt floor I've seen had a direct capillary connection to
the rest of the soil. They generally are just the top of the soil that
happened to be where the house was built, perhaps with some other soil
spread directly over it. <br>
</li>
<li>The often surprisingly nice finish of dirt floors requires
dampness. I noted that dry season maintenance included sprinkling water
over them to maintain their compact, virtually dust-free state.</li>
<li>Compaction and sweeping tends to lower the level of dirt floors. Without
added soil, rainy season surface runoff --sopa de caca in many
instances-- can intrude. </li>
<li>The dirt floors I saw were very much extensions of the ecosystem
outside; chickens, baby goats and children pooping on them, naked
infants mouthing whatever they found on them..etc. To me, it is
credible that ascaris could survive and be transmitted on the floors in
the <a
href="http://www.oasisdesign.net/design/examples/maruata/index.htm">village
where I worked most extensively</a>. I agree with Derrick however that
this transmission route would probably be dwarfed by others, for
example ubiquitous open field defecation, often with bare feet. <br>
</li>
</ul>
As for the part that's relevant to this list: Though superficially
similar, I don't think results from damp dirt floors at grade level
extrapolate to dry, sealed earth floors with a capillary break to the
ground. Weather the latter would have the benefits of concrete in a
given context is another question. This probably depends on many
factors, including for example the degree to which the roof keeps water
out. <br>
<br>
Art<br>
<br>
On 1/5/12 10:40 AM, John Swearingen wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKij1dvwKM7hex+hdXr5Qtggh_r6+Po2nxEnsFK3-aGrY2+TSw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Yes, improving (sealing, stabilizing) the earth floors
wasn't discussed in this article, and could be done at much less
expense than pouring concrete, and possibly to better effect.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Bill Steen <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bill@caneloproject.com">bill@caneloproject.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">Well I have to say can't think
of anything you said to disagree with. Quite sensible for whatever
kind of King you are. Anyhow, I just wanted to point out the
difference between the kind of dirt floors that I think the article was
referring to and other types of earthen floors - sealed, stabilized or
whatever. I think the choice of floors will have much to do with the
context, the dwelling, the inhabitants, what kind of kids are part of
the family, etc. I can think of all kinds of contexts where earthen
floors wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. And I sure wouldn't want to
try and talk someone out of a floor they like such as Jorge and his
choice of cement/lime.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Other alternatives often come to mind when imagining floor
alternatives. For the low cost houses that we did, we were able to
find sufficient amounts of broken-up concrete slab pieces and assemble
them in a manner resembling a flagstone floor. Those floors were
fabulous - durable and cheap. Love them to this day.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="im"><br>
<div><span
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div>Bill Steen</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:bill@caneloproject.com"
target="_blank">bill@caneloproject.com</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.caneloproject.com"
target="_blank">www.caneloproject.com</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.caneloproject.com/blog" target="_blank">www.caneloproject.com/blog</a></div>
<div>HC1 Box 324</div>
<div>Elgin, AZ85611</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</span><br>
</div>
</span><br>
</div>
</span><br>
</span><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<div>On Jan 5, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Bruce King wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><br>
<div> <span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">
<div
style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">Thanks,
Bill.</div>
<div
style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">I
agree with you and David E., that very likely a decent oil, lime or
emulsion finish on a well-tamped earthen floor is likely to provide the
same benefit.</div>
<div
style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><br>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">
<div
style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">I
also agree about cement. It's a fantastic building material -- when
used skillfully -- and highly problematic when not. And it comes at
very high cost: financially to a very poor person, and ecologically to
everyone. I saw in Haiti what I fear is a bit common, that people
would spend very precious cash on cement and rebar, but then use them
without knowledge or guidance, effectively throwing the money away and
getting the illusion of modernity, durability and seismic safety. Bad
concrete & masonry construction all over the world bakes people in
summer, freezes them in winter, and kills them outright in
earthquakes. By spreading just a little of the right knowledge we can
make that construction less expensive, more thermally comfortable, and
safer.</div>
<div
style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><br>
</div>
<div
style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">Most
of us on this list are painfully aware that clay-based construction is
a viable, if not superior, alternative to the many forms of
cement-based building that are now widespread everywhere. I would
guess that the built environment of the past 100 years could have all
of the good benefits, and maybe a few extra ones, and a lot less bad
effects, if about half as much cement overall had been used --
skillfully. As we promote earthen building as an alternative I really
want to keep the science tight both to be sure, and also to not provide
ammunition to the bad guys who rise up to resist our noble crusade.</div>
<div
style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><br>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">
<div
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"Ain't no good at bein' noble" King</div>
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://bruceking.posterous.com"
target="_blank">bruceking.posterous.com</a></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span><span style="font-size: 12px;">Skype: brucekingokok</span></div>
</span> </div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 5, 2012, at 9:16 AM, Bill Steen wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">Yes and no I would say.
It's talking about dirt floors that have no treatment whatsoever.
That's quite different than floors that have been sealed with oil or
that have lime included. I would assume there is no data available or
studies looking at the tataki floors of Japan that have both lime and
salts (magnesium chloride) included in the mix but I seriously doubt
that hookworm would have been a factor. Or the same I would think hold
true for floors that have been stabilized with cement and sealed in
form or another. In short, that's my answer.
<div>On a note that is indirectly related to all this, the use
of cement, not that I'm against it in all respects, in the third world
countries has produced what amounts to a plague of cold in the
winter/hot in the summer houses and buildings that in the overall
scheme of things, have had a very negative impact.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div> <span
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><span
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div>Bill Steen</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bill@caneloproject.com" target="_blank">bill@caneloproject.com</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.caneloproject.com/" target="_blank">www.caneloproject.com</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.caneloproject.com/blog" target="_blank">www.caneloproject.com/blog</a></div>
<div>HC1 Box 324</div>
<div>Elgin, AZ85611</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</span><br>
</div>
</span><br>
</div>
</span><br>
</span><br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 5, 2012, at 9:31 AM, Bruce King wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color: black; text-align: left;"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color: black; text-align: left;">Happy
New Year, baleheads!</div>
<div
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color: black; text-align: left;"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color: black; text-align: left;">I
came across the article linked below about how adding concrete over
earthen floors has a measurable positive impact on occupant <span
style="font-size: 12px;">health</span>-- especially children's. Many
of us think "Yuck!" at the idea of concrete instead of earthen floors,
but you can't argue with the science.</div>
<div
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color: black; text-align: left;"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color: black; text-align: left;">Anyone
have a rebuttal or additional relevant information? At the very least,
this seems like something we natural building types should take a
cool-headed look at.</div>
<div
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color: black; text-align: left;"><br>
</div>
<div style="text-align: left;">Paving Paradise - by Charles
Kenny | Foreign Policy</div>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/03/paving_paradise"
target="_blank">http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/03/paving_paradise</a>
<div
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color: black; text-align: left;"><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
style="font-size: 12px;">
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style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">Thanks,</div>
<div
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</div>
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"Cool Head Cold Feet" King</div>
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style="font-size: 12px;">
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style="margin: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">blog:
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href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a><br>
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href="http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN"
target="_blank">http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN</a><br>
</blockquote>
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_______________________________________________<br>
GSBN mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN"
target="_blank">http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN</a><br>
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<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
GSBN mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN"
target="_blank">http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN</a><br>
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-- <br>
<font face="'trebuchet ms', sans-serif"><span
style="font-size: x-small;"><font color="#666666">John Swearingen<br>
Skillful Means Design & Construction<br>
2550 9th Street Suite 209A<br>
Berkeley, CA 94710<br>
510.849.1800 phone<br>
510.849.1900 fax<br>
<br>
Web Site: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.skillful-means.com" target="_blank">http://www.skillful-means.com</a><br>
Blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com" target="_blank">https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com</a></font></span></font><br>
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_______________________________________________
GSBN mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN">http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN</a>
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