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<DIV>
<DIV>I side with Dereck in general and in particular on impact of the
thermal characteristics with no exterior render. There is the
potential for air infiltration through the joints between bales and
accompanying convective currents that can be set up with the delta T across the
thickness of the bale. I believe a significant component of a bale wall's
thermal performance comes from the interstices being closed off from the outside
atmosphere on both sides of the wall. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I do not remember the particulars, but as I recall, there have been tests
done on bale walls where the R-value was dramatically lower than in other tests
and one of the differences was the lack of render on both sides of the
wall.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Danny Buck</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=mailto:vankrieken@gmail.com href="mailto:vankrieken@gmail.com">Van
Krieken</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com
href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com">Global Straw Building Network</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:21
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [GSBN] Fwd: Decrement factor
of SB walls</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Yes, Dereck, you're right. In this example there is no exterior
plaster/render. Instead, there is a 16mm rainscreen panel (could be
fiberwood).
<DIV>I attach here a picture of the example presented in the book.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Jorge VK</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Derek Roff <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A title=mailto:derek@unm.edu href="mailto:derek@unm.edu"
target=_blank>derek@unm.edu</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<DIV>Thank you, Jorge, for greater details on the French research. It
appears to me that the construction describes a wall with earthen
plaster/render on the inside, and no plaster/render on the outside. Is
this correct? If so, the lack of an exterior plaster/render layer
would have a significant effect on the thermal characteristics, I would
think. As well as fire resistance, structural rigidity, moisture
buffering, and perhaps a bit of insect and rodent deterrence. I know
that some people build this way, but it seems imprudent to me. Have I
misunderstood the nature of the wall that Jean-Pierre Oliva and Samuel
Courgey are describing/testing? </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thank you,</DIV>
<DIV>Derelict</DIV>
<DIV>Derek Roff</DIV><FONT color=#888888>
<DIV><A title=mailto:derek@unm.edu href="mailto:derek@unm.edu"
target=_blank>derek@unm.edu</A></DIV></FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Dec 6, 2011, at 5:52 AM, Van Krieken wrote:</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>John,<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>As I wrote before, the best source of information (I have) about this
issue it is the book writen by Jean-Pierre Oliva and Samuel Courgey (
L'Isolation Thermique Ecologique). </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Jean-Pierre
Oliva is perhaps the best known french bio climatic architect, and since
many years a great enthusiast of straw bale building. His books (also La
Architecture Bioclimatique) can be found at Amazon.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Unfortunately,
this book is only in FRENCH. I am sorry if my translation was not well done,
so I include here the original text in french.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Citing their book, page 175, concerning a wall with wood structure and
straw bales with medium density (80 to 110 Kg/m3, strawbale section 34x46cm.
Vented façade (or rainscreen claddind) in exterior, and interior with clay
render.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Note.: <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman,Bold; FONT-SIZE: 16px">I attach to this
discussion a paper wrote by </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 14px">Jim
Carfrae</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">,
attached to this forum last January, 22, where you may have more
information about the benefits on using of a rainscreen clading in a straw
bale building, specially on humid climates.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">The
rainscreen cladding is included in the calculation of JeanPierre
Oliva for this next example:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">Wall:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif">1. Bardage bois (2cm)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif">2. lattes support et contre-latte (6cm
minimum)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif">3. Panneaux pare-plui contreventans
(16mm)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif">4. Poteaux bois massif (4x20 tous les
60cm)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif">5. Liteau de maintien des bottes (toutes
les 2 bottes)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif">6. Botte de paille posé sur champ
(36cm)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif">7. enduit terre (30mm)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif">Caracteristiques Thermiques et
environnementales:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="arial, sans-serif">Coeficient de déperdition thermique
U </FONT>(W/m2K) / R (m2K/W) .................................. 0,13 /
7,76</DIV>
<DIV>Pertes dues aux points thermiques
intégrés....................................................................
4%</DIV>
<DIV>Capacité thermique intérieure quotidienne<SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">kWh/m2K).....................</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">.............................
15 (forte</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">Capacité
thermique intérieure séquentielle </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">.....................</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">...............................................25
(moyenne)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Déphasage
(heure) / Atténuation du flux de chaleur
(%)..............................................</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">16h
/ 13%</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Epaisseur
supplementaire pour atteindre le niveau
"passif"....................................... 0</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Bilan
"CO2" du m2 de
paroi.............................................................................................
-83 kg CO2 eq</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Bilan
"energie grise" du m2 de
paroi..............................................................................
62 kWh</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">Translation
(?):</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>1. Thermal loss U (W/m2K) / R (m2K/W)
.................................. 0,13 / 7,76</DIV>
<DIV>2. Losses due to thermal
bridges............................................... 4%</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">3.
Daily</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">indoor</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">heat
capacity (kWh/m2K)................................ 15 (strong)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">4.
Sequential indoor heat capacity (</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">kWh/m2K)</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">.......................25
(medium)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">5.
Phase shift (hour) / </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">mitigation</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">of
the heat flux (%)............... 16h / 13%</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#333333 face="arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#333333 face="arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">All
the best</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Jorge
VK</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>---------- Forwarded message
----------<BR>From: <B class=gmail_sendername>John
Swearingen</B> <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
title=mailto:jswearingen@skillful-means.com
href="mailto:jswearingen@skillful-means.com"
target=_blank>jswearingen@skillful-means.com</A>></SPAN><BR>Date: Tue,
Nov 29, 2011 at 1:35 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [GSBN] Decrement factor of SB
walls<BR>To: Global Straw Building Network <<A
title=mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com
href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com"
target=_blank>GSBN@sustainablesources.com</A>><BR><BR><BR>This is very
interesting, and fortunately in English. Unfortunately, I don't really
know what it means. Can you explain more?
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<UL>
<LI>U-value I know.
<LI>Thermal bridges to nowhere, I know, but what is a "vented facade"
(above).
<LI>What are daily indoor heat capacities and sequential head capacities,
and what does "strong" and "medium" mean?
<LI>Phase shift mitigation?</LI></UL>
<DIV>Thanks!</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Van
Krieken <SPAN dir=ltr><<A title=mailto:vankrieken@gmail.com
href="mailto:vankrieken@gmail.com"
target=_blank>vankrieken@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Hi
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The best source of information about this issue (and many others
concerning insulation, thermal mass, etc) it is the book writen by
Jean-Pierre Oliva and Samuel Courgey ( L'Isolation Thermique
Ecologique).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Citing their book, page 175, concerning a wall with wood structure
and straw bales with medium density (80 to 110 Kg/m3, strawbale section
34x46cm. Vented façade in exterior, and interior with clay render.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thermal loss U (W/m2K) / R (m2K/W) ..................................
0,13 / 7,76</DIV>
<DIV>Losses due to thermal
bridges............................................... 4%</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Daily</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">indoor</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">heat
capacity (kWh/m2K)................................ 15
(strong)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"><SPAN>Sequential
indoor</SPAN> <SPAN>heat capacity (</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">kWh/m2K)</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">.......................25
(medium)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Phase
shift (hour) / </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">mitigation</SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">of
the heat flux (%)............... 16h / 13%</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Unfortunately,
this book is only in English. Jean-Pierre Oliva, is one of the best known
french bio climatic architects, and since many years a great enthusiast of
straw bale building. His books (also La Architectire Bioclimatique) can be
found at Amazon.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#333333 face="arial, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">All
the best</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Jorge
VK</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51)">Portugal</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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href="http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN"
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