<div><div>John,<br><br></div><div><div>As I wrote before, the best source of information (I have) about this issue it is the book writen by Jean-Pierre Oliva and Samuel Courgey ( L'Isolation Thermique Ecologique). </div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Jean-Pierre Oliva is perhaps the best known french bio climatic architect, and since many years a great enthusiast of straw bale building. His books (also La Architecture Bioclimatique) can be found at Amazon.</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"><br></span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Unfortunately, this book is only in FRENCH. I am sorry if my translation was not well done, so I include here the original text in french.</span></div>
<div><br></div><div>Citing their book, page 175, concerning a wall with wood structure and straw bales with medium density (80 to 110 Kg/m3, strawbale section 34x46cm. Vented façade (or rainscreen claddind) in exterior, and interior with clay render.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Note.: <span style="font-family:'Times New Roman,Bold';font-size:16px">I attach to this discussion a paper wrote by </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Jim Carfrae</span><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">, attached to this forum last January, 22, where you may have more information about the benefits on using of a rainscreen clading in a straw bale building, specially on humid climates.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The rainscreen cladding is included in the calculation of JeanPierre Oliva for this next example:</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Wall:</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">1. Bardage bois (2cm)</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">2. lattes support et contre-latte (6cm minimum)</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif">3. Panneaux pare-plui contreventans (16mm)</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">4. Poteaux bois massif (4x20 tous les 60cm)</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">5. Liteau de maintien des bottes (toutes les 2 bottes)</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif">6. Botte de paille posé sur champ (36cm)</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">7. enduit terre (30mm)</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Caracteristiques Thermiques et environnementales:</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Coeficient de déperdition thermique U </font>(W/m2K) / R (m2K/W) .................................. 0,13 / 7,76</div><div>Pertes dues aux points thermiques intégrés.................................................................... 4%</div>
<div>Capacité thermique intérieure quotidienne<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">kWh/m2K).....................</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">............................. 15 (forte</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">)</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Capacité thermique intérieure séquentielle </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">.....................</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">...............................................25 (moyenne)</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Déphasage (heure) / Atténuation du flux de chaleur (%)..............................................</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">16h / 13%</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Epaisseur supplementaire pour atteindre le niveau "passif"....................................... 0</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Bilan "CO2" du m2 de paroi............................................................................................. -83 kg CO2 eq</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Bilan "energie grise" du m2 de paroi.............................................................................. 62 kWh</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div><div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Translation (?):</span></div><div><br></div><div>1. Thermal loss U (W/m2K) / R (m2K/W) .................................. 0,13 / 7,76</div>
<div>2. Losses due to thermal bridges............................................... 4%</div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">3. Daily</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">indoor</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">heat capacity (kWh/m2K)................................ 15 (strong)</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">4. Sequential indoor heat capacity (</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">kWh/m2K)</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">.......................25 (medium)</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">5. Phase shift (hour) / </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">mitigation</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">of the heat flux (%)............... 16h / 13%</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"><br></span></div><div><font color="#333333" face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div>
<div><font color="#333333" face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">All the best</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Jorge VK</span></div>
</div></div><div>
<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">John Swearingen</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jswearingen@skillful-means.com" target="_blank">jswearingen@skillful-means.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:35 AM<br>Subject: Re: [GSBN] Decrement factor of SB walls<br>To: Global Straw Building Network <<a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a>><br>
<br><br>This is very interesting, and fortunately in English. Unfortunately, I don't really know what it means. Can you explain more?<div>
<br></div><div><ul><li>U-value I know.</li><li>Thermal bridges to nowhere, I know, but what is a "vented facade" (above).</li>
<li>What are daily indoor heat capacities and sequential head capacities, and what does "strong" and "medium" mean?</li><li>Phase shift mitigation?</li></ul><div>Thanks!</div></div><div><div><div></div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Van Krieken <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vankrieken@gmail.com" target="_blank">vankrieken@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi<div><br></div><div>The best source of information about this issue (and many others concerning insulation, thermal mass, etc) it is the book writen by Jean-Pierre Oliva and Samuel Courgey ( L'Isolation Thermique Ecologique).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Citing their book, page 175, concerning a wall with wood structure and straw bales with medium density (80 to 110 Kg/m3, strawbale section 34x46cm. Vented façade in exterior, and interior with clay render.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thermal loss U (W/m2K) / R (m2K/W) .................................. 0,13 / 7,76</div><div>Losses due to thermal bridges............................................... 4%</div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Daily</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">indoor</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">heat capacity (kWh/m2K)................................ 15 (strong)</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"><span>Sequential indoor</span> <span>heat capacity (</span></span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">kWh/m2K)</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">.......................25 (medium)</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Phase shift (hour) / </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">mitigation</span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">of the heat flux (%)............... 16h / 13%</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Unfortunately, this book is only in English. Jean-Pierre Oliva, is one of the best known french bio climatic architects, and since many years a great enthusiast of straw bale building. His books (also La Architectire Bioclimatique) can be found at Amazon.</span></div>
<div><font color="#333333" face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"><br>
</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">All the best</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"><br>
</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Jorge VK</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">Portugal</span></div>
<div><div>
<div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:55 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:strawnet@aol.com" target="_blank">strawnet@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<font color="black" size="2" face="arial"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">
<div> <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ken, Polly Cooper and Jennifer Rennick's chapter that John mention's in that Wiley book - Alternative Construction: Contemporary Natural Building Methods, </font>has a lot of information on this though they don't use the term "decrement." They talk about this issue with straw and other types of wall systems and go into considerable detail. I would get in touch with them and see what they have to say. <br>
<br>
David Eisenberg<br>
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<div style="font-family:helvetica,arial;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Laura Bartels <<a href="mailto:laura@greenweaverinc.com" target="_blank">laura@greenweaverinc.com</a>><br>
To: Global Straw Building Network <<a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com" target="_blank">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a>><br>
Sent: Mon, Nov 28, 2011 3:40 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [GSBN] Decrement factor of SB walls<br>
<br>
</font>
<div><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">
Hi Martin,
<div>Without going back to the details, I could be mistaken, but it seems that a study by Ken Haggard a while back addressed this or similar properties. I found reference in a GSBN email from '07- see below. Is this the same metric?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Laura</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John,<br>
<br>
There is that chapter from Ken Haggard and Polly Cooper on Natural<br>
Conditioning in the book Alternative Construction where they look at<br>
this. I was looking at it just recently for some curriculum development.<br>
<br>
Laura<br>
<br>
John Swearingen wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Very interesting paper, and well written. Some time ago I remember hearing<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">someone toss out some similar observations about thermal storage, that on a<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">diurnal cycle, plaster is activated to a depth of about 2-3 inches<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(5cm -7.5cm). I have always figured that the exceptional thermal<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">performance of<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">straw bale buildings is not due solely to the high R-value. The broad<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">thermal mass of the plastered walls, readily available to indoor air for<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">heat exchange, modulates temperatures like my pink Cadillac modulates bumps<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">in the road.<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Does anyone know of research and measurements of short and medium thermal<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">storage in walls?<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">John "Diurnally Yours" Swearingen</blockquote></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><font color="#888888">-- <br><font face="'trebuchet ms', sans-serif"><span style="font-size:x-small"><font color="#666666">John Swearingen<br>
Skillful Means Design & Construction<br>
2550 9th Street Suite 209A<br>Berkeley, CA 94710<br>510.849.1800 phone<br>510.849.1900 fax<br><br>Web Site: <a href="http://www.skillful-means.com" target="_blank">http://www.skillful-means.com</a><br>Blog: <a href="https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com" target="_blank">https://skillfulmeansdesign.wordpress.com</a></font></span></font><br>
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