<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<title>Re: [GSBN] Hand Compressed bales</title>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="State"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="country-region"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Arial;
color:green;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:green;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
@page Section1
{size:595.3pt 841.9pt;
margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Hi Derek<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Thanks for the lead on the jacks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Please see Habib’s response about
them….and a warning about its dangers, which I have cut and pasted below.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Has this been your experience, or is he
talking about a different one?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Not sure why he is not on the GSBN
listing?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Andy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><img width=576
height=119 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.gif@01CCA04D.371E7290"></span></font><font
color=green><span lang=EN-US style='color:green'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Hello Andy:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>There were two
possible sites overseas where the Tillers International hand baler may have
been useful. In both instances the projects never materialized so I did not get
a chance to build one. If more compression is needed, the frame can be
strengthened and a long pipe handle extension or “snipe” can
improve leverage and bale density.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>The truck jack
mentioned is affectionately known in western <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region> as a “Jack-All”.
It is useful to lift all manner of loads, just be careful the locking pins are
clean and in good repair. If not, they can slip under load and swing the pipe
handle swiftly at your head (anywhere else the damn thing would have killed
me.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>All the best,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Habib<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>*****************************************<br>
SUSTAINABLEWORKS<br>
Habib John L Gonzalez<br>
RR#1, S-4, C-12<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Crescent Valley</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">BC</st1:State></st1:place><br>
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>
V0G 1H0<br>
250-359-5095 <br>
780-438-0821<br>
www.sustainableworks.ca<br>
***************<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Derek Roff [mailto:derek@unm.edu] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 10 November 2011 07:02 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Andy Horn<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [GSBN] Hand
Compressed bales</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi, Andy,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>A few more details on the Hi-Lift style of jack. Please pardon me
if you are already familiar with it. It's design is able to handle mud
and sand without serious problem. Cleaning can be done, when needed, with
water of varying purity. With or without soap or solvent. A little
oil or grease of almost any type will make the functioning a bit smoother, but
I have seen many owners/users who do no maintenance at all for years at a time.
The big advantage of this type of jack is that it doesn't have the
tight-tolerance precision surfaces that are easily damaged or clogged in other
types of jacks. There are large steel pins that move in and out of large
holes in the steel bar. None of the tolerances are critical, and the jack
only has about 12 parts, each of which can be replaced, if needed. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>In the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United States</st1:place></st1:country-region>,
at least, they are not terribly expensive. The first link below is to a
new 48"/1200mm lift jack (a good size for baling) on eBay for $60.
The second link is to the Hi-Lift company. Their patents must have
expired years ago, so there may be a South African manufacturer of a similar
design. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a
href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/HI-LIFT-JACK-48-JACK-CAST-STEEL-HL484PC-/180717697223?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D330630829946%26ps%3D54#ht_2737wt_907">http://www.ebay.com/itm/HI-LIFT-JACK-48-JACK-CAST-STEEL-HL484PC-/180717697223?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D330630829946%26ps%3D54#ht_2737wt_907</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://www.hi-lift.com/hi-lift-jacks/index.html">http://www.hi-lift.com/hi-lift-jacks/index.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>By the way, Darcey is a woman. I will be interested to hear your
impressions, comparing her design to the one that John Habib sent you.
Would you mind forwarding that file to me? The fulcrum/lever
designs that I have seen and tried had the problem that to get high pressure,
the lever arm moved a lot, while the compression stroke was very small.
This was problematic for producing bales. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Derek<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Nov 10, 2011, at 8:44 AM, Andy Horn wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place">
<div link=blue vlink=blue>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Dear Martin<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Thank you so much for your detailed and
informative reply.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Given the extreme cold experience (there are
only 3 frost free months there a year), I would tend to stay with the thicker
bales, but was particularly thinking of the smaller ones for some of the
internal walls.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Indeed we have found that the local straw
in <st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:country-region u2:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Lesotho</st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:place></st1:country-region>
has a value locally, particularly for its use as roofing thatch. Luckily we
have the co-operation of the local chiefs to hopefully control prices from
escalating once people see a new use for it. So there is already an established
price which we have discussed with the chiefs. It is sold in bundles, which is
oriented in one direction for thatching. This means the laying of the straw end
to end alternately is the way we would need to go when loading up the baler. In
any case we have wheat straw, which is pretty brittle, so I have my doubts for
how a random style would work. However, I have also seen big stacks of it
unbundled for use as animal bedding. I did not get right up to it and see if it
was any less thick and tough. But it is worth investigating especially if it is
more readily available and less expensive. Straw certainly has uses in <st1:country-region u2:st="on"><st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Lesotho</st1:place></st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:country-region>
and does not look like it ever gets wasted. I have not seen it burned in the
fields, though they do burn their stubble. Incidentally in the <st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Cape</st1:place></st1:place> there is massive amounts of straw burnt
causing massive pollution problems in the summer. Soil erosion in <st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:country-region u2:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Lesotho</st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:place></st1:country-region>
is chronic and part of what we do around food security issues will need to take
this into account. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>I have also done urine separation toilets
before and as the locals are used to long drop toilets this may not be such a
jump for them as our city folk. Apparently if you also add in some half rotting
leaves as well as dilute the urine min 1:5 with water it makes an excellent
fertilizer ….the leaves are supposed to improve the diluted urine.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>I am still awaiting Darcey’s
detailed plans for his compactor and I would be interested to understand how it
compares to the fulcrum type that Habib sent me. It would certainly appear to
be less physically demanding. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Clearly one of the issues with the car
jack will be how one keeps it clean and well oiled, so I imagine regular
cleaning and re-oiling is a critical part of making sure one does not mess up
the jacks.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>I am looking forward to experimenting
with it all and will be going up during December and look forward to more
lively discussion and input from this group. Be sure that I will also feed back
my experiences.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Many thanks again <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Kind regards,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Andy<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><image001.gif></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
GSBN mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:GSBN@sustainablesources.com">GSBN@sustainablesources.com</a><br>
http://sustainablesources.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/GSBN<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
Derek Roff<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="mailto:derek@unm.edu">derek@unm.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>