<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Three contributions: <div><br><div>1. There's a blood-finished adobe floor in the former home of Millicent Rogers in Santa Fe NM ( now a museum ) a gorgeous deep burgundy red that was fifty years old when we saw it and going strong. I was quite impressed. </div><div>2. I ordered blood sausage, mostly out of curiosity, while on tour in France and the most vivid memory is not the meal, but how my whole music group, normally an adventurous lot, went into variations of "ick! ". </div><div>3. My guess is that you're rationalizing the "ick factor " ( a technical term from the recycled water industry ). Having strolled the meat markets in Jacmel and Fondwa, with goat heads staring out and flies aplenty, I would venture that ordinary Haitians don't have their ick factor set anywhere as high as middle class us. </div><div><br></div><div>Definitely research the cultural implications, but blood is local, it's free and it works well. It deserves serious consideration for a trial. </div><div><br></div><div> </div><div><div><div>On Mar 24, 2011, at 10:45 PM, martin hammer wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"> <font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">Hello all,<br> <br> Below are thoughts from an important member of our BWB strawbale team in Haiti regarding the idea of using blood as a sealer / hardener for the earthen floor. Regine Laroche is an architect and the only Haitian member of our design team. The informative GSBN discussion about this included two of our builders in Haiti, Andy Mueller (lead builder and initiator of the discussion) and Tina Therrien (who is doing the finish floor), and eventually led to an internal discussion about how we would finish the floor. Blood was being considered, and after biting my tongue (but not to the point of bleeding) I expressed my preference for not using blood on the floor of this building. It didn’t feel right to me personally (note: I’m not vegetarian) and I questioned how it would be received by Haitians (as did Derek Roff from BWB). So I put the question to Regine and here is her response:<br> <br> <br> </span></font><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><b>Subject:</b></font></span><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt"> Re: Floor finish. Use oil (not blood) . . .<br> </span></font><span style="font-size:12pt"><font face="Times New Roman"><br> Hello<br> <br> Touchy, touchy subject!<br> I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years, and personally find the idea highly distasteful. It's true that no animal will likely be killed specifically for that reason, and in some respect the notion of recycling ironically applies here. However, we are talking about a substance that carries the very essence of life itself- even to the point that we humans go to great lengths to store it up and transfer it from original "donors" to "recipients" for life-saving purposes.<br> More importantly, it seems to me the issue of cultural biases you pointed out, Martin, is KEY. I will venture to say that if you do use blood as part of finishing procedures for the floor, chances run HIGH that people will perceive this in a totally different light and associate it with ritual sacrifice and even the so-called "dark arts" (notice: I didn't say "vodou", a term many allow themselves to use without having ever bothered to seriously research its actual content). Remember, we are dealing with a culture that believes everything is endowed with consciousness and that beyond the end of physical life, some subtle essence (soul or energy) persists. I'll be curious to observe the fate of a house people know to have been treated in such manner.<br> I have never heard of such practices in construction here, but since many things no doubt escape my radar, I have asked a few people more familiar than myself with local traditional construction practices. All had never heard of it either and were shocked at the prospect.<br> <br> Food for thought!<br> <br> Regine L.<br> <br> <br> </font></span><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">You can follow the preceding thread below if you like, including my ponderings and Tina’s thoughtful considerations, but suffice it to say, the subject is quite charged in Haitian culture. I’ll broaden this to say that it points to the importance of considering culture and context in all building decisions, including materials, how they are used, and of course all aspects of functional and aesthetic design, including matters of symbolism and meaning. It’s not to say one can never go against or try to break through cultural bias if one believes they have good reason (including in one’s own culture, as we often do with strawbale itself!), but it should be done knowingly, with good and wise intention, and understanding of consequences.<br> <br> Martin Hammer<br> </span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt"><br> </span></font><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt"><hr align="CENTER" size="1" width="100%"></span></font><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="Arial">On 18-Mar-11, at 4:31 AM, martin hammer wrote:<br> </font></span><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="Arial"><br> </font></span><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="Arial">Dear Tina,<br> <br> If it's not too late I want to strongly encourage that oil, not blood be<br> used to finish the floor and make it more durable. Although I know blood is<br> used in various parts of the world for this purpose, using blood seems<br> philosophically wrong to me for this building (or maybe any building). To<br> rely on fresh blood from another living creature to finish the floor, when<br> vegetable or mineral materials also work (even if the creature was to be<br> slaughtered anyway), seems antithetical to what I think our work as natural<br> and sustainable builders espouses. I'm not vegetarian, but it still feels<br> wrong to me. I've remained silent on this, but have struggled with this<br> feeling and it hasn't gone away. I've copied others on this for their<br> thoughts.<br> <br> Thanks,<br> Martin<br> </font></span></blockquote></blockquote><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><br> <br> </font><font face="Arial">On 3/18/11 7:23 AM, "Tina Therrien" <<a href="strawbus@auracom.com">strawbus@auracom.com</a>> wrote:<br> <br> </font></span><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="Arial">It's not too late. Floor is still drying (the half to be plastered tomorrow, now that we have materials here again:)<br> <br> The idea of blood for the finish was in part because of discussions about plaster finishes, out of an uncertainty of what oils are even available locally (and how they work as a hardener) and out of a curiosity to know how it actually was traditionally used in finishes & plasters. I didn't want to use a product/material that would require an animal to be killed, but started thinking about it more seriously due to the fact that there really is a cow that is slaughtered weekly just down the road from GrassRoots. That does seem natural to me, to use materials that are locally present in the community. But I wasn't sold on it, more curious. It certainly isn't ethical to kill animals solely to have plaster materials, but for me, I was comfortable using blood from an animal that was going to be slaughtered regardless of our plaster finish. Honestly, I wasn't sure how it would 'feel' to use blood, but I am still quite interested in knowing traditionally how it was applied. I forgot to pick up coconut oil, but will do so over the next few days, unless there is a better oil/finish idea that comes up in the various conversations about this.<br> <br> cheers,<br> tina<br> </font></span></blockquote><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><br> <br> <b>From:</b></font></span><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:12pt"> martin hammer <<a href="mfhammer@pacbell.net">mfhammer@pacbell.net</a>><br> <b>To:</b> Tina Therrien <<a href="strawbus@auracom.com">strawbus@auracom.com</a>><br> <b>Cc:</b> Andy Mueller <<a href="info@greenspacecollaborative.com">info@greenspacecollaborative.com</a>>; Catherine Wanek <<a href="mail@builderswithoutborders.org">mail@builderswithoutborders.org</a>>; Derek Roff <<a href="derek@unm.edu">derek@unm.edu</a>>; Regine Laroche <<a href="anakaite@yahoo.com">anakaite@yahoo.com</a>>; Mark Phillips <<a href="mrppy1@gmail.com">mrppy1@gmail.com</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Fri, March 18, 2011 12:31:42 PM<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Floor finish. Use oil (not blood) . . .<br> </span></font><span style="font-size:12pt"><font face="Times New Roman"><br> </font></span><font face="Arial"><span style="font-size:11pt">Thanks Tina. I know this brings up issues about what is “natural”, including the notion that blood is natural, especially in the case where as you say a cow is slaughtered weekly, locally and that this is part of the society and culture. I really do appreciate that aspect of it. I also appreciate that you say it would be unethical to kill an animal solely for this purpose, which I assumed you and everyone else would say. So I don’t want to be naïve or falsely pure about this. Death is part of life (is that a legitimate view here), and if this slaughter will occur anyway, then one could say the blood would just go to waste (presumably), so why not use it for good purpose. Maybe there is already a history of use of blood in plaster and earthen floors in Haiti, especially in rural areas. Can you ask some of the Haitians there about any history, and what they think about using blood in this manner regardless of its history? There may be strong cultural bias, either for or against. (Regine, could you please weigh in on this?) I’m being very careful about this, especially for this model building, as it tends to set precedent (and may even encourage undue slaughter for a future building?). My own instinct is still against, but I’ll remain open to a full exploration of all sides, including but not only its effectiveness, which I think it deserves. <br> <br> Thanks.<br> <br> Martin<br> <br> <br> </span></font><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">GSBN mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN">http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</a></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>