<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">If you're going to use multiple coats of oil on the floor, don't you want the FIRST coat to be thinned, and therefore penetrate better, and then progressively thin subsequent coats less and less?</div></div></div></span></div></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>So would a carpenter think so, wood is a lot less porous. Or so I would say. Therefore, we've always gotten the best results by applying full strength oil, letting it penetrate, which it does so well and then using the solvents to get a little additional oil soaked in. But hey, as they say down here, every maestro has own libro (book of tricks) and whatever you can get to work, then that oughta be good.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Also: am I the only one who is uncomfortable about the idea of using edible oils (i.e., food) in construction? My discomfort is partly because that oil is food to all sorts of critters, but also because one way or another you are, by using it, sort of removing it from a hungry person's mouth.</div></div></div></span></div></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Well since linseed = flax, flaxseed oil is clearly a food and we've never had problems with it especially when one considers that the oil is typically laced with solvents. If you stop and think about it, most oils are edible in one form or another. Haven't consumed any used motor oil recently, but I can assure you that the critters won't care for it.</div><div><br></div><div>At least down here, termites are the big issue and when they have options for mud mixes with straw, I don't think the linseed oil would be of much interest to them. At least the Mexican termites don't seem to have an interest in flax based products.</div><div><br></div><div>Bill<br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; font-size: 12px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Bruce "Big Mouth" King</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Director of <font class="Apple-style-span" face="Sketcher" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">EBNet</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Sketcher" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">Ecological Building Network</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><b><i>the art and science of building well</i></b></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><a href="mailto:bruce@ecobuildnetwork.org">bruce@ecobuildnetwork.org</a> </div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">PO Box 6397</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">San Rafael, CA 94903 USA</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">(415) 987-7271</div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">follow us on Twitter: @EBNetwork</div></div></span></div></span> </div><br><div><div>On Mar 17, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Bill wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I'm in Mexico working without much internet access, but let me pick up this thread.<div>There were questions about adding glues to the floor mix. We experimented intensively years ago with every glue imaginable.</div><div>Basically I see no reason unless the oil being used on the floor doesn't harden it sufficiently and there is need for additional strength.</div><div>They can add strength if needed.</div><div>Or if the clay content is low, it can help make up for the lack.</div><div>If linseed oil is available, then it is usually more than sufficient if the floor mix is well done.</div><div>Perhaps the glues will be of assistance when using other types of oils. In other words, the linseed oil hardens as well as seals from water.</div><div>So, if we use what I will call for now an interior oil, then maybe the glue will make up the difference.</div><div>As for the blood Tina asked about it needs to be fresh and added to the floor mix, at least the upper layers to work well.</div><div>There is not a lot of information out there about using blood, sketchy at best.</div><div>The Weisman book basically repeats what we wrote about early in the Straw Bale House and have been using ever since.</div><div>It is still the basic formula given to us back in the early 90s in New Mexico by a woman named Anita Rodriguez.</div><div>However there is a serious flaw in what they have written and that has to do with not using Raw linseed oil.</div><div>Boiled linseed oil is full of driers and assorted chemical compounds, the odor is usually very objectionable.</div><div>We take our raw linseed oil, put it in a shallow tub with a glass cover and leave it in the sun for a few weeks.</div><div>The resulting product is called sun-thickened linseed oil and what happens is that it helps pre-oxidize the oil and therefore improves its drying time.</div><div>If the surface of the floor is not densely troweled, the oil will penetrate just fine by itself. The solvents are then added to get additional penetration after the first coat. When the oil is hot and the floor warm, obviously it penetrates better. But hot oil does not necessarily eliminate the need for a solvent. Depends upon how many coats of oil are being used. If more than one is desired, then the addition of a solvent will be needed.</div><div>Hey, you might be happy with one coat of oil, but more than likely, additional coats will give better results.</div><div><br></div><div>And for now, I'll go back to continue working on the first building we have done in Mexico in over 12 years near the ocean on salty ground, where metal rusts rapidly and there are more concentrations of termites than almost anywhere in the world and wood gets eaten overnight.</div><div><br></div><div>Bill</div><div><div><div>On Mar 17, 2011, at 6:42 AM, Van Krieken wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">There is a quite detailled chapter about earther floors in this book: Building with Cob, by Adam Weismann & Kathy Brice. <br> I sugest you get this book, a great step-by-step guide.<br><br>Concerning the sealant: (in page 172):<br><br>«(...) In the past, animal urine and blood were used to acieve the sealant. These days it is more common to use boiled (NOT RAW) linseed oil mixed with a solvent such as turpentine, or citrus oils for a more enviromentally friendly option.<br> The solvent acts to assist penetration of the oil deep into the pore spaces of the floor. Without it the oil will simply form a shell on the surface of the floor, wich will be easly broken and damage. Another option is to boil the boiled linseed oil, wich assists penetration of the oil into the floor and thus eliminates the need to add a thinner.<br> <br>The formula is as follows:<br><br>1st coat: 100% boiled linseed oil<br>2nd coat: 75% boiled linseed oil/25% thinner<br>3rd coat: 50% boiled linseed oil/50% thinner<br>4th coat: 25% boiled linseed oil/75% thinner<br><br> Mix the oil and the solvent together in a bucket and apply evenly using a paintbrush<br>Aloow each coat to dry between each aplication, and when the floor no longer feels tacky to the touch.<br><br>Apply final beeswax polish.»<br> <br>Good floors!<br><br><br>Jorge Van Krieken<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, tina therrien <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:strawbus@auracom.com">strawbus@auracom.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;">Hi guys. I am leaning towards trying some blood for the sealer of the earth floor in our straw house, at least for part of it- does anyone have an actual old-time recipe? I don't have any of my old school plaster books here- if you can help me along, I'd appreciate it!<div> <br></div><div>thx,</div><div>tina</div><div><br><div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div>On 16-Mar-11, at 10:10 AM, MARK SCHUENEMAN wrote:</div><br></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Goudy Old Style'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> <div><div></div><div class="h5">Greetings All,<span> </span><br> <br>Has anyone noticed any adverse or positive effects of oils applied to floors with additives in the mix...such as casein, dung, blood, wheat paste, whatever? And, I would guess that warming the oil, whatever oil, would help the penetration. Heating it to too high of a temp may not be recommended. I have some cob window sills that look beautiful but they need a sealer to be most effective. All of this chatter (I say with all due respect) has helped me with my future experimentation with finishing these sills. I look forward to hearing how the Haiti project turns out. Thanks all. <br> <br>Gratefully,<br>Mark Schueneman<br>Colorado Straw Bale Association<br><br><br> <br><hr>From:<span> </span><a href="mailto:graeme@ecodesign.co.nz" target="_blank">graeme@ecodesign.co.nz</a><br>Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:11:58 +1300<br> To:<span> </span><a href="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com" target="_blank">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><br>Subject: Re: [GSBN] earthen floor sealer in Haiti<br><br><div><br></div><div><br></div>Hi there Tina<div><br></div><div> My painting genius friend has offered to carry out some trials with various oils on unfired clay tiles to help with sorting this out - so any pointers to readily available oils over there would be very welcome I am sure<div> <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><span style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); word-spacing: 0px;"><div> Graeme</div><div>Graeme North Architects</div><div>49 Matthew Road</div><div>RD1</div><div>Warkworth</div><div>tel/fax +64 (0)9 4259305</div><div> </div><div><a href="mailto:graeme@ecodesign.co.nz" target="_blank">graeme@ecodesign.co.nz</a></div> <div><a href="http://www.ecodesign.co.nz/" target="_blank">www.ecodesign.co.nz</a></div><br></span></div><br><div><div>On 15/03/2011, at 11:43 AM, tina therrien wrote:</div><br><blockquote><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"> Thanks for all of your suggestions & input for the sealer- Jean Louis, one of our Haitian builders, is going to try to procure coconut oil from the market, which we'll test, although he just arrived, and as with many materials here, the coconut oil is proving more difficult and expensive to find than originally anticipated. If we do the finish floor today or tomorrow, there should be enough time for it to cure by Saturday. Apparently they slaughter a cow just down the laneway every Saturday, so we may even be able to use some cow blood to seal the floor. <div> <br></div><div>I have found reference to molasses before in terms of finishes, and am now even more curious about it, but don't think we'll have time to try it out here, at least not for this project. </div><div> <br> </div><div>Any other tips for earthen floors, either finish coat or for sealing, are welcome. I'll stay in close touch with Andy Mueller regarding the floor- I know he wishes he was here to work on it! Pics to come.</div> <div><div><br></div><div>In reply to André (and hi, André, by the by!), the BWB website has a page about this project- both a blog and a photo gallery (<a href="http://www.builderswithoutborders.org/" target="_blank">http://www.builderswithoutborders.org/</a>) Apart from that, both Andy Mueller & I have blogs. My personal blog is about various natural building projects I'm involved with here, and personal impressions of being in Haiti...certainly not all about building, but there are a few segments dedicated to building (including compressed earth block, earth bag, and soon to be light clay/straw if all goes well). <a href="http://strawhomes.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://strawhomes.blogspot.com/</a><span> </span>(you'll have to skim through to find building photos & stories).</div> <div><br></div><div>tina</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div><br></div></div><div><span style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; border-collapse: separate; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"> <div><div>Camel's Back Construction</div><div>Quality, handcrafted homes</div><div><a href="http://www.strawhomes.ca/" target="_blank">www.strawhomes.ca</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br></div></span><br> </div><br></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>GSBN mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com" target="_blank">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><br><a href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN" target="_blank">http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</a><br> </blockquote></div><br></div></div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________ GSBN mailing list <a href="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com" target="_blank">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><span> </span><a href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN" target="_blank">http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</a>_______________________________________________<div class="im"> <br>GSBN mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com" target="_blank">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><br><a href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN" target="_blank">http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</a><br> </div></div></span></blockquote></div><div class="im"><br><div> <span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Goudy Old Style'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"> <div><div>Camel's Back Construction</div><div>Quality, handcrafted homes</div><div><a href="http://www.strawhomes.ca" target="_blank">www.strawhomes.ca</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br></div></span><br> </div><br></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br> GSBN mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><br> <a href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN" target="_blank">http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br> _______________________________________________<br>GSBN mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><br><a href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN">http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>GSBN mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><br><a href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN">http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>GSBN mailing list<br><a href="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><br>http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN<br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>