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<title>Re: [GSBN] SB Overhangs (was Big News!)</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Hi Martin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>I certainly don’t envy those trying
to create a 1 size fits all international building code that balances freedom
of design and place for innovation with the specifics of good building practice.
Anyhow to add some further food for thought.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>In answering questions about what to do with
multi storey designs, I always find history to be such a valuable tool when it
comes to looking at various design responses. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>The vernacular architecture of Japan has
evolved a very sensible architectural style when it comes to protecting their
thin little earth plastered wattle and daub structures. Numerous numbers of these
structures still exist with some are many hundreds of years old, with some
being even 3 or 4 storeys high of earth plaster!! The roofs are often but not always
hipped, affording good overhangs all around and in the case of multi storey
buildings each floor has its own min roof around it like skirts.…so
shedding the rain at each level. In the case of gabled wall ends, all the
openings have min roofs over them. Other times the clay wattle and daub is given
a basic plaster and then an external timber siding rather than more plaster is
used. Effectively parapet walls are generally avoided so the roof always closes
over the top of a wall. Even their boundary walls, which are usually of more
solid packed earth and are typically earth plastered, all have mini roofs over
the tops of the walls ….usually 1 layer of beautiful crafted fire clay tiles
overhanging either side with a ridge cap in the centre. Their plastered walls
are also broken into panels with expressed timber framing, so that the plaster
surfaces are broken down into manageable sizes that can be plastered to
absolute perfection and generally present much fewer problems with cracking.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>I am not familiar with the extent or
wording of the code, so I may be speaking out of context but generally I would be
worried about being overly prescriptive about how one solves a problem ....especially
where officials can take a narrow interpretation of a code and there may be
ways and new products that have not been thought of yet that may offer
alternate solutions? While I agree having roof overhangs is best practice and I
have not done otherwise, it may be wiser that one set about defining what one
is trying to do that a roof overhang is doing…i.e. not letting water get
in from the top being the most critical clearly….. or is one trying to give
the wall some degree of protection from rain hitting it by using an overhang as
well? Because outright protection I don’t believe is practical or even
necessary. I think the degree or amount of overhang is more of a regional thing
that is even specific to the exact context of the site of the building… the
intensity of rain that is potentially hitting a wall and the direction that it
comes (rain does not always come from above) are clearly important factors to
try and understand and respond to and will vary from place to place.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Context will change things and how one
designs in relation to the context …..so I would imagine some of
what the code needs to address would be how design may respond differently in
relation to the amount of rain, wind direction, wind driven rain (if applicable),
rain intensity, when it rains in relation to how cold or hot it is, so one
understands how quickly or otherwise rain may be able to dry out again. The position
of ones overhangs and rain buffers (pergolas, shade devices etc) and use of rain
screens may be of more importance depending on where and how big one designing……the
rain here in the Cape is typically winter rainfall that is wind driven almost always
coming from the North west….and in some cases comes in horizontally especially
along the coast. In these cases one has to look at incorporating siding over
the bales and rain screens on the exposed sides to help shield the rain….and
in certain cases I will avoid using straw in the parts where it is too at risk….so
I rarely end up with a building with 100% of its walls being in straw bale.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Best <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'>Andy Horn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=green face="Futura Lt BT"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Futura Lt BT";color:green'>ECO
DESIGN – Architects & Consulatants<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=green face="Futura Lt BT"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Futura Lt BT";color:green'>6<sup>th</sup>
floor, 79 on Roeland, 79 Roeland St. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=green face="Futura Lt BT"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Futura Lt BT";color:green'>8001,
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">CAPE TOWN</st1:City>, <st1:country-region
w:st="on">SOUTH AFRICA</st1:country-region></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=green face="Futura Lt BT"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Futura Lt BT";color:green'>Tel:
07 21 462 1614, fax 07 21 461 3198<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=green face="Futura Lt BT"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Futura Lt BT";color:green'>website:
www.ecodesignarchitects.co.za<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=green face="Courier New"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=green face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:green'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com [mailto:GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>martin hammer<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 25 August 2010 02:50 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> (private, with public
archives) Global Straw Building Network<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [GSBN] SB Overhangs
(was Big News!)</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi Graeme,<br>
<br>
I’ll send you the SB code off list.<br>
<br>
Re: the overhangs, what do you do with multi-story or tall walls? Do you
have roof at typical first floor ceiling height in addition to the upper roof?<br>
<br>
I will definitely consider putting such a table into the SB code. I saw
Bruce’s vote of agreement, and wonder if anyone else strongly agrees or
disagrees that overhangs be code-mandated for strawbale.<br>
<br>
Overhangs are generally a very good idea for SB, and I consider them
“good practice” or “best practice”. I don’t
know if they are at the level of “minimum practice”, which is
typically the threshold of code language, although all of that is open to
considerable debate. Also in your table you account for wind as a
factor, but not rainfall. If your table were applied to desert climates,
it might be unfairly restrictive (although some desert climates receive
concentrated periods of rain).<br>
<br>
In an earlier iteration of the code I prohibited strawbale parapets, but for a
few reasons decided to instead be silent on the issue.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/24/10 4:11 PM, "Graeme North" <graeme@ecodesign.co.nz>
wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial'>HI Martin<br>
<br>
firstly my congratulations -<br>
<br>
and yes, I would really appreciate a word document I can make comment on <br>
<br>
>From my neck of the woods, one of the overriding issues I encounter time
and time again is that of good weather protection from wind driven rain in our
decidedly pluvian and humid climate - something that gets skittered
around in most books and references. <br>
<br>
I think we need a prescriptive starting point. In the NZ Earth Building
Standards NZS 4299 we relate wind zone. eaves height (vertical exposed wall
height), and roof overhang width to give MIMIMUM roof overhangs as
follows - <br>
<br>
<br>
Wind Zone - Ratio of eave height to width<br>
Low (at ULS 32m/s) 4:1 (600mm over a 2400 wall)<br>
Medium (37m/s) 8:3 <br>
High (44 m/s) 3:2<br>
Very High (50 m/s) 1:1 (or in other words a full verandah)<br>
<br>
<br>
We developed this table after leaks and some degradation of material in some
earthen structures and I can report that there has been no reported problem
since we adopted this. <br>
<br>
It is my contention that straw buildings are at least as moisture sensitive as
earthen buildings and I would suggest that this sort of table be regarded a
good starting point for calculating minimum roof overhangs for direct-plastered
external strawbale walls, a recommendation that could possibly be worked back
(or exceeded) after local weather or site assessment, or possibly a service
history of locally developed techniques.<br>
<br>
It may seem a but draconian to some but for my money the biggest problem with
strawbale buildings, in humid wet climates at least, seems to be that of
providing adequate primary weather protection, in the form of eaves, or rain
screening, and lack of good practical prescriptive guidance on this subject.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Comments welcome<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Graeme (in bossy standards writing mode) North<br>
<br>
Graeme North Architects<br>
<st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">49 Matthew Road</st1:address></st1:Street><br>
RD1<br>
Warkworth<br>
tel/fax +64 (0)9 4259305<br>
<br>
graeme@ecodesign.co.nz<br>
www.ecodesign.co.nz<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:
Arial'><br>
<br>
On 23/08/2010, at 5:32 PM, martin hammer wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>Everyone,<br>
<br>
Lars Keller asked the below question so I thought I would answer to all
in case others are interested. I’ll set a deadline of September
30th for anyone wanting to comment on the strawbale code as in the second draft
of the IGCC.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/22/10 9:36 PM, "Lars Keller" <larskeller@gmail.com>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dear Martin,<br>
What is the deadline for comments to you ?<br>
Best regards,<br>
Lars Keller<br>
<br>
On 22 August 2010 03:36, martin hammer <mfhammer@pacbell.net>
wrote:<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hello friends on the GSBN,<br>
<br>
My voice has been conspicuously absent on this subject, so I thought I
would weigh in. <br>
<br>
First, thanks for the words of appreciation. I was pleasantly
surprised to hear the news from David on Monday. I think this strawbale
code document is very good, but there are a number of reasons I didn’t
think it would go through to the next step. I thought both the Earthen
Materials proposal (referencing the recently revised ASTM standard that Bruce,
David in earlier years, and others worked so hard on) and the Straw-Clay
proposal I co-authored with Paula Baker-Laporte, had better chances. I
might propose them again in the upcoming Code Change Proposal phase (once IGCC
committee concerns are addressed).<br>
<br>
Much blood, sweat, and a few tears have gone into this SB code since
2003, when I began writing it at the request of the State of <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">California</st1:place></st1:State> (they asked Bruce, Bruce asked me
. . .). I’ve had very good input from others along the way,
including members of this list (David Eisenberg, Bruce King, Dan Smith, Bob
Theis, Tim Kennedy, John Swearingen, Bill Steen, Kelly Lerner) (apology if
I’ve missed anyone), and others not on this list, notably civil
engineering professor Mark Aschheim. <br>
<br>
Because it started as a <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">California</st1:place></st1:State>
code, and because there are great SB experts in northern CA where I live, the
code might be a bit California-centric (with particular attention to seismic
issues). However I’ve always wanted it to be broadly applicable and
I welcome broader, global input at this time. I expect to propose
adjustments during the next IGCC review phase. If it remains in the IGCC
and goes the way codes often do, some version of this might show up at your
building official’s door and then your strawbale door in Australia, South
Africa, or who knows where. And although I think there’s much to
like, I can almost guarantee you can find something you don’t like.
So . . .<br>
<br>
If you want to see and comment on the proposed code you can ask me to
e-mail the proposed SB code (by itself) to you as a word document, and then
e-mail me your comments or send it back with “track changes”. <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>OR </span></b>you can go to: <u><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'><a
href="http://www.iccsafe.org/CS/IGCC/Pages/Comments0810.aspx">http://www.iccsafe.org/CS/IGCC/Pages/Comments0810.aspx</a></span></font></u>
, and download all Public Comments under the “Complete Document”
subheading (Strawbale Construction is Comment #5-136). You can then
e-mail your comments to <u>me</u> (<b><u><span style='font-weight:bold'>not</span></u></b>
to ICC). I’m also open to comments on #5-134 Straw-Clay, and #5-135
Earthen Materials. If you want to understand the IGCC process and
schedule, you can go to: <u><font color=blue><span style='color:blue'><a
href="http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/IGCC/Pages/PublicVersionDevelopment.aspx">http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/IGCC/Pages/PublicVersionDevelopment.aspx</a><br>
<br>
</span></font></u>In addition, I want to clarify that:<br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Strawbale is not yet in the IGCC.
That’s because it isn’t finalized (and SB could even be
entirely removed). </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Even if included in the final version, the IGCC
applies only to commercial and high-rise residential, AND only in
jurisdictions that adopt the IGCC. So it would have limited
application. </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></li>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
That said, this approval is still a very good thing. And if it does
make it to the finish line of the IGCC, it would probably then migrate to the
IBC in the next code cycle, and then to a jurisdiction near you. I even
see the possibility of jurisdictions adopting it or informally using it for all
occupancies, even before reaching the IBC. John Swearingen’s report
of it already producing “instant results” for his project in <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Stanislaus</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> supports that notion, and is both
welcome and frightening. <br>
<br>
Finally, I want to acknowledge David Eisenberg and Matts Myhrman who
together forged the first SB code in Arizona in the early-mid 1990’s, and
to David again for speaking so convincingly on behalf of the current proposed
code at the recent hearing in Chicago. If you read his description of
what he said, you’ll see that he simply told the compelling truth about
the most relevant issues. It’s one of many things David does so
well. It’s nice when the compelling truth prevails (at least for
now).<br>
<br>
Thanks David, and thanks to all. And thanks to the enduring spirit
of strawbale!<br>
<br>
<font color="#888888"><span style='color:#888888'>Martin<br>
<br>
</span></font>PS - For a pre-IGCC history of this SB code, see my GSBN post on
Dec. 1, 2009. Reviewing that e-mail might also be used as a natural aid
to help you fall asleep. However, for me it is a riveting drama
(sometimes moving at the pace of a melting glacier . . . actually that’s
happening quite quickly these days!)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/16/10 10:13 PM, "strawnet@aol.com"
<strawnet@aol.com> wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=5
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>Hello all</span></font>,<br>
<br>
I want share some great news. Earlier today, here in <st1:City w:st="on">Chicago</st1:City>,
Martin Hammer's "comment"/proposal to include the strawbale code
he’s been working on over the past few years in <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">California</st1:place></st1:State> into the new International Green
Construction Code (IgCC) was approved by a committee vote of 8 to 6! The IgCC
is the new <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>
code for commercial (and high-rise residential) buildings that will become part
of the family of 2012 International Codes (I-codes). It will go through a full
code development cycIe with the rest of the 2012 I-codes next year and there is
work that will need to be done still to make sure it doesn’t get rejected
in that process, but getting it into the second public draft of the code now is
a very big step forward. <br>
<br>
I served on the drafting committee for this code from last summer through
the spring of this year. For more information about the IgCC and to download
the whole IgCC first public draft and the comments – including
Martin’s proposals for strawbale and earthen building and the EcoNest
comment in support of straw clay go here:<br>
<a href="http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/IGCC/Pages/default.aspx">http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/IGCC/Pages/default.aspx</a><br>
<a href="http://www.iccsafe.org/CS/IGCC/Pages/Comments0810.aspx">http://www.iccsafe.org/CS/IGCC/Pages/Comments0810.aspx</a><br>
You’ll find these listed as comments 5-134, 5-135 and 5-136.<br>
<br>
I was the only proponent speaking in favor of it here, and there were
others who spoke in opposition. The initial motion was to disapprove but it
failed 5 votes to 9 after considerable and very mixed discussion – which
surprised me because of the nature of some of the comments – that it was
still not ready and needed some technical fixes. <br>
<br>
The failure of the motion to disapprove required a new motion and Chris
Mathis, an old building science friend from <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">North Carolina</st1:place></st1:State>, offered a motion for
approval. That was followed by more discussion, with more concerns expressed
that it wasn't ready. Then, just before the second vote, Chris pressed the
committee to push the envelope. He said they should approve it and get it in,
and rather than just having the few people who are very knowledgeable about it
work on improving the things that still need to be done, “Let thousands
of people look at it and help improve it through the next round of the code
development process!” He said it was time to start pushing these things
through. Then they voted - and it passed 8 to 6! I was amazed and delighted! So
it is going into the second public draft! <br>
<br>
There were two other similar proposals (they’re called
“comments”) that were heard right before the strawbale comment. The
first, from Paula Baker Laport and Robert Laport proposed including the straw
clay guidelines from <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:place></st1:State>.
Next was the other submitted by Martin, that one in support of earthen construction
based on the new ASTM standard for earthen wall systems that I had initiated
almost 10 years ago and Bruce King has spearheaded over the past few years. I
spoke in support of both, but they were disapproved, though both received
encouraging suggestions to bring them forward again after addressing
non-mandatory/permissive language and other issues. <br>
<br>
Because they were heard one after the other, and I was the only proponent
for them, I got to speak first for each one and so I had a total of 6 minutes
(2 minutes each) to frame them all in terms of the big issues I’ve been
speaking to for all these years, including the coming challenges of ever-more
limited and expensive energy, the low-impact, low-tech, climate beneficial,
local/regional benefits, the industrial/proprietary bias and difficulty in
funding research, testing and development for public domain, non-proprietary
materials and systems. I started off by talking about the fact that I had been
in buildings in <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place> built with materials
like straw clay and earth that are twice as old as this country! And to say
that these are durable and safe ways of building when done properly. And when
talking about the ASTM earthen standard, I said that if they looked at it they
might think that it was too low tech to be reasonable compared to the standards
that they’re used to for concrete and other industrial materials. But, I
said, It was intentionally low tech. That I was involved in initiating that
standard almost ten years ago and it was both to enable the use of those
materials here and to reverse the outlawing of earthen building in developing
countries through the adoption of modern industrial codes. That it was designed
to enable people to build safe, durable, healthy, and affordable buildings anywhere
in the world—including the in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">United States</st1:place></st1:country-region>. I mentioned that the
committee that developed that standard included the leading experts on earthen
building and engineering from around the world and was based on reviewing and
incorporating the best from international codes and standards for earthen
building. <br>
<br>
After the first two went down, I was quite convinced because of the
comments that the sb proposal would share the same fate and, thankfully, I was
wrong!<br>
<br>
So hats off to Martin, Bruce, Matts, and many others who have worked so
long and hard to develop these codes and to Chris Mathis for his leadership and
visionary action on the committee. <br>
<br>
Onward!<br>
<br>
David Eisenberg<br>
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