<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Hi Andy!<br><br>Thanks for the comment and the link, nice building. I've done dipping the bales for a project as well. The houses that we mainly build in Denmark now, are jumbobale loadbearing houses, with NO wood in the walls, and walls plaster-sprayed in the first one or sometimes 2 coats, the spraying makes the dipping unnessecary. <br>Do you work in Zimbabwe? The .za at the end of the web address?<br><br>Cheer Caroline<br><br><font face="verdana">Caroline Meyer White <br><br>Friland 23 <br>8410 Rønde <br>tlf + 45 40 76 1980 <br><br></font><font face="verdana"><u><strong><font color="#bf005f"><em>New email which I am changing to:</em> hojtpaastraa@gmail.com <br><br></font></strong></u>Kender du: engodsag.dk ? <br><br>Eller paksbab.org ?</font><br><br>--- On <b>Wed, 9/16/09, Andy Horn <i><andy@ecodesignarchitects.co.za></i></b>
wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Andy Horn <andy@ecodesignarchitects.co.za><br>Subject: Re: [GSBN] prefab strawbale<br>To: "'(private, with public archives) Global Straw Building Network'" <GSBN@greenbuilder.com><br>Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 4:30 AM<br><br><div id="yiv1483006364">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Hi Caroline</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">A modification of a prefabricated system
but which effectively cuts out a lot of time with the plastering and is kind of
related to “prefab” is to look at bale dipping……this
involves fitting bales between frames and then disassembling the wall
sequentially, then dipping the exposed surfaces of the bales in a watery mix of
earth (yogurt consistency) and working the earth into the straw while laid
flat in a bath or trough. The bales are then left in the sun to dry until they
become are of cob like consistency before raising them back into position. You
can find some good pictures of the system on our web site. Our most recent Straw
bale project can be found under <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.ecodesignarchitects.co.za/eco/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=44&g2_itemId=2406">http://www.ecodesignarchitects.co.za/eco/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=44&g2_itemId=2406</a></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I have found this to be a highly effective
way of building that combines some of the advantages of the pre-fab systems (ease
of applying initial plaster coat) with the advantages of onsite assembly. While
it does not save on timber, it does not need heavy duty machinery to erect with
cranes etc and generally having a frame in place is easier for municipalities
and conventional builders to get their heads around. I have been using this
system for about 5 or 6 years now.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Kind regards </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Andy Horn</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">ECO DESIGN - Architects & Consultants</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">6<sup>th</sup> Floor,
79 Roeland St .</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Cape Town</span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">, 8001</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">South Africa</span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Tel: 0721 4621614 Fax: 07 21 461 3198</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">www.ecodesignarchitects.co.za</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com [mailto:GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>caroline meyer white<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> 14 September 2009 12:44 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> with public archives) Global
Straw Building Network(private<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [GSBN] prefab
strawbale</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Derek, </span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thanks for your reply.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">What I, in an affaul lot of words, is trying to
say, is that I think we need prefab elements, be it Modcell or any
other. And I personally think that if e.g. what we would consider a large
amount of wood in the frame or some other sort of compromise, is what you
have to do, to make it easy for a conventional contracter to choose your
panel, then I can live with that compromise. Because the general carbon
footprint, or which ever method we choose to measure with, will still be fare
better then any other mainstream alternative that I at least know of.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">So my inquirries were mainly to say that I don't
think it is right to compare these panels - be it Modcell or any other, with
loadbearing balehouses, because they have the potentiel to reach a market
that we unfortunately don't seem to be able to reach with the more specific
balehouse techniques.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Secondly some of the discussion on the list seemed
to not take in the information actually given on Modcells website. Such as
the local assembling of the panels - Of course on site assembling is
great, but if the panels are assembled at the barn where the straw is sitting
anyway, there isn't really any additional transportation involved.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">They have the "lite" panels, where the
frame is 50 mm but with 2 I-beam wooden posts inside the panel, a light osb
I-beam I think. That helps a bit on the amount of wood and I am curios why
the are not all done like that.</span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">My curiosity in this prefab thing has leed me to
having just arrived in Bath to
do my 5th semester engineering internship, I will be following a
research project on the Balehouse, where some of all of these issues will be
adressed. When I first saw the panels I had all the same reservations as
expressed on this list, and I still do! I am very keen to get a look at the
need for that heavy wood frame, to find a design where local wood can be
used, to encourage testing and considering earthern plasters in locations
where that will be sufficient. To find better ways of assembling the
panels etc. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">So I am all with you, and in the end, we are a few
people hoping to set up something as appropriate as can be, in Denmark. So I
was very excited about the discussion on the list, and a bit dissapointed
that it kept coming back to this comparison of systems that don't do the
same.. I like the lighter versions of panels that Chris talked about, I just
find it important to have the whole specter and accept that oned of it,
which will be most "normal" may need compromises.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I think it is as Bruce mentioned earlier, that these
guys are really open to suggestions, and still ongoing with lots of testing.
Any good suggestions that are shared I am sure will be taken in account. I am
told that the engineers involved are very conservative (not a surprice), and
probably some convincing strength on bales could be really helpfull, in order
to help them to calculate the bales into the system.</span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">When there is more to share from over here I will be
very happy to do so. And I am obviously keen to get more details on the other
pre fab systems that you or anybody else knows about.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Cheers<br>
</span></font><font face="Verdana"><span style="font-family: Verdana;">Caroline </span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;">Kender du: engodsag.dk ? <br>
<br>
Eller paksbab.org ?</span></font><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Fri, 9/11/09, Derek Roff <i><span style="font-style: italic;"><derek@unm.edu></span></i></span></b> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
From: Derek Roff <derek@unm.edu><br>
Subject: Re: [GSBN] prefab strawbale<br>
To: "Global Straw
Building Network"
<GSBN@greenbuilder.com><br>
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 3:58 PM</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thanks for your comments, Caroline. I am very
interested in strawbale <br>
panels, and in finding ways to increase the use of bales in all kinds <br>
of construction. I agree with you, that we will need to find more <br>
industrial bale building methods, if we are to interest certain <br>
segments of the building industry.<br>
<br>
A different question is comparing the specific Modcell prefab panel <br>
method/technology/approach to what other companies are doing, using <br>
different prefab panel methods. I've seen buildings and building <br>
methods using factory assembled stawbale panels that I like better. Of <br>
course, what I have seen and read cannot equate to a rigorous, <br>
scientific comparison, but I think that there are prefab panel <br>
approaches in use in Switzerland ,
Austria ,
Canada , and
probably other <br>
places, that look more promising to me than Modcell.<br>
<br>
Caroline, are you saying that you think Modcell is the best prefab <br>
method available, or that we need an industrial prefab method, such as <br>
Modcell or something like it?<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Derek<br>
<br>
--On Friday, September 11, 2009 9:27 AM -0700 caroline meyer white <br>
<<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=fredmeyer8@yahoo.com">fredmeyer8@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear All,<br>
><br>
> Knowing that I am very late in this respons, I feel like I should<br>
> make it anyway.<br>
> In Denmark
for some time, we have had an ungoing discussion on, how<br>
> to make strawbale construction breaking through. Because, there is no<br>
> doubt, the load bearing houses, build in lovely parties,<br>
> strenghtening community etc, well you can't do better then that, when<br>
> you want to see environment and livelyhoods flourish.<br>
> But how much of the market do we reach? I am affraid that I have lost<br>
> the belief in, that we will get to have a very big market share using<br>
> the different bale techniques that are out there. At least in<br>
> Denmark ,
no construction worker - be it trained in carpentry, masonry<br>
> or simular trades touch bale construction. It is to fare from what<br>
> they have learned. And then not to talk about more industrialized<br>
> buildings, not just thinking of residential homes.<br>
><br>
> SO..I think Modcell is the best suggestion out there to break the<br>
> market. We have the absolutely more appropriate solutions for the<br>
> people who will engage them selves in building their homes, be it in<br>
> Europe/US or any where on the planet, where you always build your<br>
> home your self. But if we want to change some carbon footprint, it's<br>
> the heavy guys we need to reach, and then be there a lot of wood in<br>
> the structure or not. - With the Modcell nobody needs to care about<br>
> that it's straw thats inside it, once it reaches the building site.<br>
> And that may be what makes it duable for the conventional market. -<br>
> Allowing straw to become an insulation material like any other, not a<br>
> hippie-style of construction, which is the impression that any<br>
> conventional builder has about the way I have at least build all my<br>
> houses.<br>
><br>
> Considering the transportation, I just want to mention, if you<br>
> haden't seen on the web site, that they construct the panels always<br>
> in a local barn, so transportation is never more then a few miles<br>
> with the completed panels and only the woodframes are coming in from<br>
> a fare.<br>
><br>
> So having defended this, I agree that their may be ways of<br>
> improvement, which Modcell themselves are working on as well. My<br>
> point is just, that this alternative potentially can reach a market<br>
> that we (being all us balers) can't reach. And which may in the end<br>
> have a very large impact on our beautiful planet.<br>
><br>
> All the best<br>
> Caroline<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> From: Brian <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brian@anvill.com.au">brian@anvill.com.au</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [GSBN] prefab strawbale<br>
> To: "'(private, with public archives) Global Straw Building
Network'"<br>
> <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a>><br>
> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 5:24 PM<br>
><br>
><br>
> Hi All,<br>
> I have been interested in prefab wall panels for some time, but have<br>
> difficulty finding the appropriate time and skill savings. My son<br>
> Brad has a<br>
> render pump that will pump up to 60 square meters an hour at 20mm<br>
> thick. He<br>
> works with the owners and their volunteers to keep their costs down.<br>
> It is<br>
> often necessary to have two mixers to keep up with the machine, but<br>
> at 1<br>
> square meter per minute it is pretty quick.<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> Brian<br>
> Anvill<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com">GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com</a><br>
> [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com">GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cmagwood@kos.net">cmagwood@kos.net</a><br>
> Sent: Friday, 31 July 2009 8:40 PM<br>
> To: private, with public archives) Global Straw Building Networ<br>
> Subject: Re: [GSBN] prefab strawbale<br>
><br>
> John,<br>
><br>
> Most of the cost and time savings with the prefab panels we're doing<br>
> come<br>
> from eliminating the site plastering. The poured walls are done in a<br>
> single coat, poured "sidewalk style", both sides of the panel
at one<br>
> time.<br>
> There is no way even our best practiced spray crew could do two coats<br>
> to<br>
> two sides to a perfect finish in under an hour for an 8ftx8ft panel.<br>
> Plus,<br>
> the plaster can be applied in any weather and can cure away from sun,<br>
> wind<br>
> and gravity pulling things down the wall.<br>
><br>
> After lots of experiments, we decided not to cast door and windows<br>
> into<br>
> the panels. Instead, we panelize the sections of the building between<br>
> openings, and then frame in the openings once the panels are<br>
> installed. In<br>
> the case of the building we just did, those sections don't have any<br>
> bale<br>
> in them. Instead, we framed out storage bins/benches at the same<br>
> width as<br>
> the bale walls.<br>
><br>
> We include a single stud at the edge of each panel, and the framed<br>
> sections are attached to these studs. I can send you the plan details<br>
> if<br>
> you want. We typically don't meet shaky
California criteria here in<br>
> Ontario ,
but I'm sure the system can be adapted to suit.<br>
><br>
> Chris<br>
><br>
>> That's interesting info, Chris, particularly your construction
costs.<br>
>> Maybe<br>
>> we should try something like that!<br>
>><br>
>> I'm not clear how, with a module that's pre-plastered, you tie<br>
>> modules together and make them weather-tight as well as structurally<br>
>> sound (don't forget, our ground shakes violently now and then).<br>
>><br>
>> It seems that your 'poured' walls are simple and easy for unskilled<br>
>> builders. What would be the difference if you
installed pre-fab<br>
>> walls w/o<br>
>> plaster, and a professional crew did the plastering as normally
done?<br>
>><br>
>> John "Beyond Fab" Swearingen<br>
>><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> GSBN mailing list<br>
> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><br>
> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN">http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> GSBN mailing list<br>
> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</a><br>
> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN">http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Derek Roff<br>
Language
Learning Center<br>
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100<br>
University of
New Mexico<br>
Albuquerque ,
NM 87131-0001<br>
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885<br>
Internet: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=derek@unm.edu">derek@unm.edu</a><br>
<br>
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