<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>Hi Derek, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your reply.</DIV>
<DIV>What I, in an affaul lot of words, is trying to say, is that I think we need prefab elements, be it Modcell or any other. And I personally think that if e.g. what we would consider a large amount of wood in the frame or some other sort of compromise, is what you have to do, to make it easy for a conventional contracter to choose your panel, then I can live with that compromise. Because the general carbon footprint, or which ever method we choose to measure with, will still be fare better then any other mainstream alternative that I at least know of.</DIV>
<DIV>So my inquirries were mainly to say that I don't think it is right to compare these panels - be it Modcell or any other, with loadbearing balehouses, because they have the potentiel to reach a market that we unfortunately don't seem to be able to reach with the more specific balehouse techniques.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Secondly some of the discussion on the list seemed to not take in the information actually given on Modcells website. Such as the local assembling of the panels - Of course on site assembling is great, but if the panels are assembled at the barn where the straw is sitting anyway, there isn't really any additional transportation involved.</DIV>
<DIV>They have the "lite" panels, where the frame is 50 mm but with 2 I-beam wooden posts inside the panel, a light osb I-beam I think. That helps a bit on the amount of wood and I am curios why the are not all done like that.</DIV>
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<DIV>My curiosity in this prefab thing has leed me to having just arrived in Bath to do my 5th semester engineering internship, I will be following a research project on the Balehouse, where some of all of these issues will be adressed. When I first saw the panels I had all the same reservations as expressed on this list, and I still do! I am very keen to get a look at the need for that heavy wood frame, to find a design where local wood can be used, to encourage testing and considering earthern plasters in locations where that will be sufficient. To find better ways of assembling the panels etc. </DIV>
<DIV>So I am all with you, and in the end, we are a few people hoping to set up something as appropriate as can be, in Denmark. So I was very excited about the discussion on the list, and a bit dissapointed that it kept coming back to this comparison of systems that don't do the same.. I like the lighter versions of panels that Chris talked about, I just find it important to have the whole specter and accept that oned of it, which will be most "normal" may need compromises.</DIV>
<DIV>I think it is as Bruce mentioned earlier, that these guys are really open to suggestions, and still ongoing with lots of testing. Any good suggestions that are shared I am sure will be taken in account. I am told that the engineers involved are very conservative (not a surprice), and probably some convincing strength on bales could be really helpfull, in order to help them to calculate the bales into the system.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When there is more to share from over here I will be very happy to do so. And I am obviously keen to get more details on the other pre fab systems that you or anybody else knows about.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>Cheers<BR><FONT face=verdana>Caroline </FONT><FONT face=verdana><U><STRONG><FONT color=#bf005f><BR></FONT></STRONG></U></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=verdana>Kender du: engodsag.dk ? <BR><BR>Eller paksbab.org ?</FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 9/11/09, Derek Roff <I><derek@unm.edu></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: Derek Roff <derek@unm.edu><BR>Subject: Re: [GSBN] prefab strawbale<BR>To: "Global Straw Building Network" <GSBN@greenbuilder.com><BR>Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 3:58 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>Thanks for your comments, Caroline. I am very interested in strawbale <BR>panels, and in finding ways to increase the use of bales in all kinds <BR>of construction. I agree with you, that we will need to find more <BR>industrial bale building methods, if we are to interest certain <BR>segments of the building industry.<BR><BR>A different question is comparing the specific Modcell prefab panel <BR>method/technology/approach to what other companies are doing, using <BR>different prefab panel methods. I've seen buildings and building <BR>methods using factory assembled stawbale panels that I like better. Of <BR>course, what I have seen and read cannot equate to a rigorous, <BR>scientific comparison, but I think that there are prefab panel <BR>approaches in use in Switzerland, Austria, Canada, and probably other <BR>places, that look more promising to me than Modcell.<BR><BR>Caroline, are you saying that you think
Modcell is the best prefab <BR>method available, or that we need an industrial prefab method, such as <BR>Modcell or something like it?<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Derek<BR><BR>--On Friday, September 11, 2009 9:27 AM -0700 caroline meyer white <BR><<A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=fredmeyer8@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:fredmeyer8@yahoo.com">fredmeyer8@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>> Dear All,<BR>><BR>> Knowing that I am very late in this respons, I feel like I should<BR>> make it anyway.<BR>> In Denmark for some time, we have had an ungoing discussion on, how<BR>> to make strawbale construction breaking through. Because, there is no<BR>> doubt, the load bearing houses, build in lovely parties,<BR>> strenghtening community etc, well you can't do better then that, when<BR>> you want to see environment and livelyhoods flourish.<BR>> But how much of the market do we reach? I am affraid that I have
lost<BR>> the belief in, that we will get to have a very big market share using<BR>> the different bale techniques that are out there. At least in<BR>> Denmark, no construction worker - be it trained in carpentry, masonry<BR>> or simular trades touch bale construction. It is to fare from what<BR>> they have learned. And then not to talk about more industrialized<BR>> buildings, not just thinking of residential homes.<BR>><BR>> SO..I think Modcell is the best suggestion out there to break the<BR>> market. We have the absolutely more appropriate solutions for the<BR>> people who will engage them selves in building their homes, be it in<BR>> Europe/US or any where on the planet, where you always build your<BR>> home your self. But if we want to change some carbon footprint, it's<BR>> the heavy guys we need to reach, and then be there a lot of wood in<BR>> the structure or not. - With the Modcell nobody needs to
care about<BR>> that it's straw thats inside it, once it reaches the building site.<BR>> And that may be what makes it duable for the conventional market. -<BR>> Allowing straw to become an insulation material like any other, not a<BR>> hippie-style of construction, which is the impression that any<BR>> conventional builder has about the way I have at least build all my<BR>> houses.<BR>><BR>> Considering the transportation, I just want to mention, if you<BR>> haden't seen on the web site, that they construct the panels always<BR>> in a local barn, so transportation is never more then a few miles<BR>> with the completed panels and only the woodframes are coming in from<BR>> a fare.<BR>><BR>> So having defended this, I agree that their may be ways of<BR>> improvement, which Modcell themselves are working on as well. My<BR>> point is just, that this alternative potentially can reach a market<BR>> that we
(being all us balers) can't reach. And which may in the end<BR>> have a very large impact on our beautiful planet.<BR>><BR>> All the best<BR>> Caroline<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> From: Brian <<A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brian@anvill.com.au" ymailto="mailto:brian@anvill.com.au">brian@anvill.com.au</A>><BR>> Subject: Re: [GSBN] prefab strawbale<BR>> To: "'(private, with public archives) Global Straw Building Network'"<BR>> <<A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN@greenbuilder.com" ymailto="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</A>><BR>> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 5:24 PM<BR>><BR>><BR>> Hi All,<BR>> I have been interested in prefab wall panels for some time, but have<BR>> difficulty finding the appropriate time and skill savings. My son<BR>> Brad has
a<BR>> render pump that will pump up to 60 square meters an hour at 20mm<BR>> thick. He<BR>> works with the owners and their volunteers to keep their costs down.<BR>> It is<BR>> often necessary to have two mixers to keep up with the machine, but<BR>> at 1<BR>> square meter per minute it is pretty quick.<BR>><BR>> Regards<BR>><BR>> Brian<BR>> Anvill<BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: <A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com" ymailto="mailto:GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com">GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com</A><BR>> [mailto:<A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com" ymailto="mailto:GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com">GSBN-bounces@greenbuilder.com</A>]<BR>> On Behalf Of <A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cmagwood@kos.net" ymailto="mailto:cmagwood@kos.net">cmagwood@kos.net</A><BR>> Sent: Friday, 31 July 2009
8:40 PM<BR>> To: private, with public archives) Global Straw Building Networ<BR>> Subject: Re: [GSBN] prefab strawbale<BR>><BR>> John,<BR>><BR>> Most of the cost and time savings with the prefab panels we're doing<BR>> come<BR>> from eliminating the site plastering. The poured walls are done in a<BR>> single coat, poured "sidewalk style", both sides of the panel at one<BR>> time.<BR>> There is no way even our best practiced spray crew could do two coats<BR>> to<BR>> two sides to a perfect finish in under an hour for an 8ftx8ft panel.<BR>> Plus,<BR>> the plaster can be applied in any weather and can cure away from sun,<BR>> wind<BR>> and gravity pulling things down the wall.<BR>><BR>> After lots of experiments, we decided not to cast door and windows<BR>> into<BR>> the panels. Instead, we panelize the sections of the building between<BR>> openings, and then frame in the openings once the
panels are<BR>> installed. In<BR>> the case of the building we just did, those sections don't have any<BR>> bale<BR>> in them. Instead, we framed out storage bins/benches at the same<BR>> width as<BR>> the bale walls.<BR>><BR>> We include a single stud at the edge of each panel, and the framed<BR>> sections are attached to these studs. I can send you the plan details<BR>> if<BR>> you want. We typically don't meet shaky California criteria here in<BR>> Ontario, but I'm sure the system can be adapted to suit.<BR>><BR>> Chris<BR>><BR>>> That's interesting info, Chris, particularly your construction costs.<BR>>> Maybe<BR>>> we should try something like that!<BR>>><BR>>> I'm not clear how, with a module that's pre-plastered, you tie<BR>>> modules together and make them weather-tight as well as structurally<BR>>> sound (don't forget, our ground shakes violently now and
then).<BR>>><BR>>> It seems that your 'poured' walls are simple and easy for unskilled<BR>>> builders. What would be the difference if you installed pre-fab<BR>>> walls w/o<BR>>> plaster, and a professional crew did the plastering as normally done?<BR>>><BR>>> John "Beyond Fab" Swearingen<BR>>><BR>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> GSBN mailing list<BR>> <A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN@greenbuilder.com" ymailto="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</A><BR>> <A href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN" target=_blank>http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</A><BR>><BR>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> GSBN mailing list<BR>> <A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN@greenbuilder.com"
ymailto="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</A><BR>> <A href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN" target=_blank>http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</A><BR><BR><BR><BR>Derek Roff<BR>Language Learning Center<BR>Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100<BR>University of New Mexico<BR>Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001<BR>505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885<BR>Internet: <A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=derek@unm.edu" ymailto="mailto:derek@unm.edu">derek@unm.edu</A><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>GSBN mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc321.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=GSBN@greenbuilder.com" ymailto="mailto:GSBN@greenbuilder.com">GSBN@greenbuilder.com</A><BR><A href="http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN" target=_blank>http://greenbuilder.com/mailman/listinfo/GSBN</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>