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<TITLE>Re: [GSBN] SB support for St Paul Architect</TITLE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>David,<BR>
<BR>
I’ve shared contact info with Lucas for builders in WI and MI, also suggested he buy #53 and #54 of TLS and shared your note about Oregon code. He’s appreciative of the help that everyone is trying to give to him and to MN codes officials. He’ll keep in touch and I’ll share what I learn – and hope anyone else contacting him to help or share information will do the same.<BR>
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Thanks<BR>
<BR>
Joyce<BR>
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<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE="Arial">Just an fyi, I had an e-mail exchange with Lucas a couple of days ago and referred him to TLS among other things. Below is what I wrote to him - it might be helpful to others as well, though probably not new info for many on GSBN. He wrote back to say that he had made a similar argument to little avail, and that he had found an Oregon building official willing to talk with his officials. He also said he has Bruce King's book but would look for another copy to give to the building department. Joyce, if you do talk to Lucas or write to him, let him know that Oregon has for years had straw bale provisions in their state building code. Here's what I wrote:<BR>
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================<BR>
Lucas,<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, I know (although only vaguely remember the details) about this bit of history - in fact, we had overtly tried to educate the two people who were doing that work because we saw their designs and the literature they were putting out and pointed out to them at the time that what they were doing wasn't going to work. It didn't stop them from going forward and creating the worst case scenario for all who followed. <BR>
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Part of my strategy when dealing with code officials in the aftermath of such things is to point out that hundreds of thousands of stick frame buildings have suffered the same fate and that hasn't stopped us from building millions of20them - bad design, poor construction and detailing will cause the failure of any building material or system - and shouldn't be viewed as inherent in the system. We knew early on that what these folks were doing was going to fail. And the reason you can't make things foolproof is that are fools are so clever and persistent!<BR>
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I would suggest, first of all, to get two copies of the book "Design of Straw Bale Buildings" by Bruce King of the Ecological Building Network - www.ecobuildnetwork.org <a href="http://www.ecobuildnetwork.org"><http://www.ecobuildnetwork.org></a> - and published by Green Building Press - www.greenbuildingpress.com <a href="http://www.greenbuildingpress.com"><http://www.greenbuildingpress.com></a> — one for you and your contractor and one to actually give to the building department. It is, far and away, the most comprehensive technical book on straw bale design and construction and the section on moisture was written by Dr. John Straube, a global leader in building science who teaches at the University of Waterloo and consults all over the world on high to low tech moisture and building science issues. It provides all the technical info you should have, and it should also satisfy the building department as well. <BR>
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You might also go to The Last Straw website - www.thelaststraw.org <a href="http://www.thelaststraw.org"><http://www.thelaststraw.org></a> - and buy a couple of back issues - particularly issues #53 and #54 which are about codes and research and testing - available as downloadable PDF files for $6 each - <a href="http://online.thelaststraw.org/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2">http://online.thelaststraw.org/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2</a> <a href="http://online.thelaststraw.org/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2"><http://online.thelaststraw.org/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2></a> <BR>
<BR>
The bottom line is that we knew enough to know that what was being done in Minneapolis back in the early 90s was going to be a disaster and we were right. We have learned a huge amount in the intervening years and there are thousands of sb buildings around the world in all kinds of climates that perform very well. <BR>
<BR>
If you continue to have problems with this, I'm willing to speak with your officials too.<BR>
<BR>
I hope this helps.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
<BR>
David Eisenberg<BR>
Director <BR>
DCAT<BR>
www.dcat.net <a href="http://www.dcat.net"><http://www.dcat.net></a> <BR>
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-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Joyce Coppinger <jc10508@windstream.net><BR>
To: (private, with public archives) Global Straw Building Network <GSBN@greenbuilder.com><BR>
Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2009 7:47 am<BR>
Subject: Re: [GSBN] SB support for St Paul Architect<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10.0px'>One suggestion would be to share information about successful building<BR>
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projects in the Great Plains region including Wisconsin and Michigan which<BR>
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would have more similar climactic conditions than Oregon.<BR>
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I'll send an email to Lucas giv<BR>
ing him contact information for at least<BR>
<BR>
three straw-bale builders I know of in these two states that he could<BR>
<BR>
contact. I'll also be sure he knows about the International Straw Bale<BR>
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Registry listings.<BR>
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<BR>
<BR>
The codes officials might also accept box column method more readily in<BR>
<BR>
terms of structural design so will share that with Lucas, too.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Joyce<BR>
<BR>
--------------- <BR>
<BR>
Joyce Coppinger<BR>
<BR>
Managing Editor/Publisher<BR>
<BR>
The Last Straw, the international journal<BR>
<BR>
of strawbale and natural building<BR>
<BR>
PO Box 22706, Lincoln NE 68542-2706<BR>
<BR>
402.483.5135, fax 402.483.5161<BR>
<BR>
<thelaststraw@thelaststraw.org><BR>
<BR>
www.thelaststraw.org <a href="http://www.thelaststraw.org"><http://www.thelaststraw.org></a> <BR>
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> Pete Fust has asked me to post a request for ideas and support, to<BR>
<BR>
> help make it possible to build with strawbale in Minneapolis-St Paul.<BR>
<BR>
> Due to well publicized failures of some of the first SB buildings in<BR>
<BR>
> that area, in the mid-ninties (described in The Last Straw), there is<BR>
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> very strong resistance in the building department to permitting any<BR>
<BR>
> strawbale structures.<BR>
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> <BR>
<BR>
> Architect Lucas Alm, lucas@almdesignstudio.com, an adjunct professor<BR>
<BR>
> at the University of Minnesota and eco-designer, hopes to design and<BR>
<BR>
> build with strawbale in the Twin Cities. At the recent Midwest<BR>
<BR>
> Renewable Energy Fair, he told Pete that although some officials<BR>
<BR>
>20recognize that the building failures were the result of poor design<BR>
<BR>
> and construction practices, others continue to oppose strawbale as a<BR>
<BR>
> building material. Lucas said than one official had asked him for<BR>
<BR>
> performance data on SB structures in Oregon, because "it has the most<BR>
<BR>
> similar climate to St Paul." Lucas recognizes the inaccuracy of this<BR>
<BR>
> comparison, and is looking for ways to move the dialog into a more<BR>
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> productive and relevant channel.<BR>
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> <BR>
<BR>
> Pete suggests that anyone offering help with this problem can<BR>
<BR>
> probably acquire all the lutefisk that they might desire.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> Derelict<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> Derek Roff<BR>
<BR>
> Language Learning Center<BR>
<BR>
> Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100<BR>
<BR>
> University of New Mexico<BR>
<BR>
> Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001<BR>
<BR>
> 505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885<BR>
<BR>
> Internet: derek@unm.edu<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> _______________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
> GSBN@greenbuilder.com<BR>
<BR>
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