[GSBN] Catalan vaults

[martin hammer]

Derek,

Thanks very much for voicing this concern.  Especially in areas of even
moderate seismic risk.

Martin Hammer


On 12/12/11 3:31 PM, "Derek Roff" <derek at unm.edu> wrote:

> It's great to see what people are doing with thin, low-arch vaults and domes.
> Obviously things are working for them.  However, I am concerned about safety.
> With every building material and design, as we push toward the extremes, the
> risk of failure increases.  And when failures occur, they are more likely to
> be catastrophic.  Traditional building forms, methods, and materials tend to
> have a lot of redundancy, and are usually quite fault tolerant.  More modern,
> optimized, resource minimizing designs and structures require everything to be
> done right, and run the risk of collapse from the failure of one or a few key
> elements.  
> 
> I feel concern about the Catalan arches in this regard.  Individual pieces of
> the arch are each in high stress.  The perimeter of the low-arch shell
> experiences forces many times the weight of the dome.  Small horizontal
> displacements can lead to structural failure and collapse across some or all
> of the dome.  Few of us have trained our intuitions sufficiently to make
> accurate judgements about many of the design and building details.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that no one should experiment with these structures,
> Rather, I am calling for us to take proportionately greater care and to pay
> substantially greater attention to design, materials, and construction
> details, when the risks are higher and harder to judge.  I wonder if Bruce, or
> other engineers on the list, would comment on building Catalan domes with
> unfired earthen materials.
> 
> Trying to keep our heads in the clouds, and out from under the bricks,
> 
> Derelict
> 
> Derek Roff
> derek at unm.edu
> 
> 
> On Dec 12, 2011, at 12:02 PM, huffnpuff at q.com wrote:
> 
>> Chris and All,
>> 
>> I do remember perusing the info posted for the Catalan vaults and found it
>> most interesting. About a year ago I had an opportunity to attend a charrette
>> on Compressed Earth Blocks, hosted by Bernard Amadei at the U. of Colorado.
>> These CEB builders were meeting to discuss similar issues that we SB builder
>> types are/have experienced with acceptance, testing, codes etc. Two fellows
>> of particular vision and spirit were Satprem Maini from the Auroville
>> Institute, India
>> http://www.earth-auroville.com/vaulted_structures_introduction_en.php and Jim
>> Hallock, of icatis, USA http://www.icatis.org/, both NGO's building with
>> CEB's and Vaults/domes. Both web sites are full of the work these two
>> organizations have done and are eye candy for anyone interested in vaults. If
>> you visit the icatis site you'll see they have teamed with George Nez and
>> built at least one of his 'thin shelled latex concrete' roof systems.
>> 
>> Currently our local engineer and COSBA member Ian Smith and his wife (both
>> engineers) are on their honeymoon in India at the Auroville Institute at a
>> workshop on vaults. That's devotion...
>> 
>> Mark Schueneman
>> COSBA 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Magwood" <chris at chrismagwood.ca>
>> To: "with public archives) Global Straw Building Network (private"
>> <GSBN at greenbuilder.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 9:55:05 AM
>> Subject: [GSBN] Catalan vaults
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The mention on this list some months back about Catalan vaults (or
>> Guastavino vaults) sparked my interest, and we've now decided to forge
>> ahead and build one as the roof for a buried, earthbag root cellar at
>> Trent University.
>> 
>> Does anybody have experience building these, or know of anybody who
>> does. I'd like to try and hire in somebody to lead us in this build.
>> It's a small structure (18 x 22 ft) so it won't be a long build, but I
>> always like to have someone knowledgeable in charge when doing things I
>> haven't done before.
>> 
>> The budget for the project is not high, but I would be willing to try
>> and cover travel costs, food, lodging and a bit of cash for the right
>> person.
>> 
>> Let me know!
>> 
>> Chris

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