[GSBN] Baling thoughts

[Derek Roff]

I agree that we don't know much about baled corn and sugar cane 
culms/stalks, and that experimentation is essential before full scale 
use.  As to sugar content, I've chewed fairly dry, post-harvest corn 
stalks from a few (organic) fields in both North and South America, 
and all those that I have tried have ranged from delightfully to 
cloyingly sweet.

I also agree that moisture is a critical part of the problem with 
bale decay.  Keeping bales dry is very important, but in spite of our 
best efforts, bales get wet pretty often, sometimes after they are 
stacked and plastered, and the house is being lived in.  While any 
plant can rot, some rot more readily than others.  I was suggesting 
that the differences between similar plants, in similar overly moist 
conditions, can be important to builders and home owners.

I don't think it is true that any plant can spontaneously combust, 
when in wet bales, as we would use or store them.  Again, the 
differences between similar plants in this regard seems important to 
anyone contemplating a building material.

I appreciate the discussion and the contrasting viewpoints.  Thanks, 
John.

Derek


--On Tuesday, February 3, 2009 9:40 AM -0700 john rehorn 
<rehorn at frontier.net> wrote:

> Derek is right about attracting insects and rodents by building
> something that has food value in it.  I doubt that corn culm has
> much  food value in it, but I'm not sure about sugar cane.
> However, as far  as mildew, rot and spontaneous combustion is
> concerned, I  respectfully disagree with you on one small point,
> Derek.  Microbial  activity flourishes in moist climates.  Any bale
> will mildew, rot and  possibly be a source of spontaneous
> combustion no matter what plant  material it is made of.  As we all
> know, if you get your bales wet on  a regular basis, you're screwed
> no matter what type of straw you use.
>
> Spontaneous combustion is a serious concern in commercial hay bales
> mainly if you bale too early before the material has cured.  As a
> matter of fact, a properly harvested bale of hay or straw is much
> less likely to be a source of spontaneous combustion, even if it
> later gets wet in a stack in a barn, than an improperly cured bale
> of  hay, straw, or I imagine, corn culm.
>
> Just like the first human who saw a lobster and said, "I'm going to
> eat that," someone needs to build the first structure of this
> alternative material (maybe an outbuilding) and see how it does.
> Imagine what all the neighbors were saying about the first
> Nebraskan  to build a house out of a bale of grass.
> Respectfully,
> John
>
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2009, at 9:06 AM, Derek Roff wrote:
>
>> The amount of available sugars and other easily accessible
>> carbohydrates in corn and sugar cane stalks, even after
>> processing,   is likely to be a lot higher than for straw or hay.
>> That would   make me worry about losing bales and buildings to
>> mildew, rot, and   other micro-organisms, as well as insects,
>> rodents, and most   catastrophically, spontaneous combustion.
>>
>> Research indicates that baled straw from cereal grains does not
>> spontaneously combust.  In commercial hay bales, sometimes made
>> from the same cereal grains harvested earlier in the growth cycle,
>>  spontaneous combustion is a serious concern.  That tells me that
>> straw and hay each lie close to the threshold for spontaneous
>> combustion risk, and anything more nutritious and digestible than
>> straw could be a fire risk.  I would worry about spontaneous
>> combustion during transport and storage of the bales, and even
>> after construction, in properly plastered walls.
>>
>> Derek
>>
>>
>>
>> --On Tuesday, February 3, 2009 8:51 AM -0700 Mark Jensen
>> <markj at redfeather.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings everybody,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was in a meeting yesterday with a man who would like to see
>>> sustainable housing in his home land of Kenya. He mentioned that
>>> they grow a lot of wheat and rice there, however he asked if I had
>>> heard of baling sugar cane or corn stalks. I have not heard of
>>> anybody doing this, but have any of you heard of this or have any
>>> thoughts of the plausibility of doing such. I'm thinking the culm
>>> might be just too big for a baler. I would love to hear your
>>> thoughts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark Jensen
>>>
>>> Construction Program Director
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Red Feather Development Group
>>>
>>> PO Box 907
>>>
>>> Bozeman, MT 59771-0907
>>>
>>> T: (406)585-7188
>>>
>>> F: (406)585-7187
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> markj at redfeather.org   www.redfeather.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Derek Roff
>> Language Learning Center
>> Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
>> University of New Mexico
>> Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
>> 505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
>> Internet: derek at unm.edu
>>
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Derek Roff
Language Learning Center
Ortega Hall 129, MSC03-2100
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-0001
505/277-7368, fax 505/277-3885
Internet: derek at unm.edu